CHILE vs Costa Rica, 22 de enero en Coquimbo (Amistoso) [R]

Discussion in 'Chile: Selecciones Nacionales' started by JAIME CHILE, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. SIN DIOS NI LEY

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Finalmente en nuestra selección siempre la integrarán chilenos por el simple motivo que o son chilenos nacidos fuera con uno de los padres con-nacional nuestro, por ejemplo los Rodríguez suizos, Miiko Albornoz o Mauro Zárate o de última extranjeros nacionalizados luego de residir cinco años ininterrumpidos en el país, tiempo suficiente para estar convencido que quieres ser un chileno más.
    Sobre lo anterior,confieso que no tengo idea de derecho comparado, pero no se me ocurre otro país en que sea tan complicado obtener la ciudadanía al requerir tanto tiempo de residencia y que para rematarla la ciudadanía por gracia te la conceda una de las cámaras legislativas. Tengo entendido que en otros lados se otorga por simple decreto del Presidente u otra autoridad (la por gracia) .

    A mi me gustaría que se llame a un compatriota nacido fuera de nuestras fronteras o alguien que haya pasado por nuestra liga destacando aquí y luego en un torneo competitivo. Todo un símbolo de algo que se aproxima, un país donde emigra gente de diversas naciones.
     
  2. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #52 Rickdog, Jan 11, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
    Yes, it does.

    It is the only instrument used to recognize the nationality of any given citizen.

    In any case his problems (Diego Costa) in Spain are not over racism, but xenophobics which is a diferent issue, although may have certain relationship to racism, but it's not the same. Among Spaniards, are probably the biggest and worst cases of xenophobics in all of hispanic-american nations. We basicly owe Spain the existence of it, in South America, when they conquered us and brought it with them to their former colonies. It is not for anything they call us all, as "Sudacas"....
    :thumbsdown:
     
  3. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    We went through this, on the legal level of course it does. When i define myself or you as Chilean I am talking about something much more than a paper. If tomorrow the chilean government takes the nationality away from me I will still be chilean.
     
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  4. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #54 Rickdog, Jan 11, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
    Nope.
    If you lose your nationality, you are no longer chilean. Even if you wish to continue being one (and you consider it as so), nothing you could say or do will change that issue, as it was basicly you whom gave your back to the country willingly and freely, by adopting a new one in exchange, or because you decided to do awful things against your country, its people or its dignity. At most, you would be a citizen of another nation, whom was and isn`t any longer a chilean (at least on Chile's concern).

    In any case, our constitution gives citizens who have lost their chilean nationality some legal tools in order to allow them to recover it.

    To have the chilean nationality is a privilege, and should always be considered as so.
     
  5. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    By that account Chileans that adopted another nationality cease to be Chilean............

    A Chilean that becomes a United States citizen will be a Chilean American. See how far you get by telling a proud Irish American that they aren't Irish.

    Whether a government with antiquated concepts doesn't want to recognize you as no longer being a citizen anymore will not negate your history which goes beyond.
     
  6. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    You can try to bend the issue as much as you want to, but for that "proud" irish-american, he is above anything else, first a citizen of the USA, than whatever "irish" he may want to be.

    If their would ever be a war between USA against Ireland, he would have to fight for the USA and kill irish citizens. Yeah, this issue sucks, but it is what it is. That's why chosing a nationality is a very delicate issue, anyone must take in account everything it implies, before switching to a new one.
     
  7. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    The Irish, grant national citizenship by descent, and the United States permits dual citizenship.
     
  8. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    It's not that simple.
    Irish-americans conveniently want to believe what they want to believe, but it doesn't work that way for Ireland.

    To grant the citizenship by descent, one of the direct parents (father or mother), must be an irish born citizen (from the free state of Ireland, in which case doesn`t include those who are born within North Ireland), and if this doesn't happen, you can`t acquire directly the irish nationality (in any case, that person is entitled of the possibility to ask for citizenship, where some other issues will be asked for).
    Besides, if whomever resides for more than 7 years outside Irish frontiers, loses its irish citizenship. So not many irish-americans actually living in the USA, are irish citizens (even if they want to believe the opposite).

    :p
     
  9. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Incorrect, it's not a narrow as you are stating. Citizenship through descent is extended to grandchildren and great-grandchildren of just one Irish citizen. Although it gets more difficult the farther removed you are, I know firsthand of American citizens that have taken advantage of such a clause.

    Furthermore, an Irish-American, Irish-Canadian, etc, will remain Irish because it is an ethnic group. ;)
     
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  10. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Ethnicity doesn`t constitute citizenship. They are not the same thing.

    In regards to the citizenship by descent, it is as how I told you before, while you are mixing this issue with another completely diferent thing. Citizenship by descent only considers automatic citizenship when at least one of the parents was irish born. Now when your grandparents was a fully irish citizen, you are entitled to ask for citizenship, which is not the same as an automatic citizenship.
    Something similar happens to those born in North Ireland, once born they don't become automatic citizens, but they are entitled to ask for citizenship at an older age.
     
  11. Ludovico

    Ludovico Member

    Mar 16, 2011
    Paris, France
    Club:
    Audax Italiano
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He seems pretty Chilean to me...my goodness! The amount of "bleeps"!


    Rumour has it that he will be getting a call-up from Samps. The only complication would be whether or not his team allows him to play on a non-FIFA date. I'm waiting on a more credible source to confirm it.

    Also, I read somewhere that Ruben Farfan might be getting a call-up as well.
     
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  12. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Ask the millions of chileans here, "What makes them chilean?", nobody will say just a piece of paper. The government can do a million things, arbitrary of course, but fortunately they only go as far in the legal aspect. Like I said, if tomorrow the government takes away my chilean citizenship (arbitrary btw) I will still be chilean because I feel myself chilean, and there is nothing a law or a piece of paper could say to change my mind. Im willing to bet the majority of chileans would feel the same way.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, it seems Albornoz might get called up, we need a good quality backup for Isla.
     
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  13. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    :eek: Link? Source?
     
  14. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
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  15. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Por la cantidad de pitos, debe ser pariente de Daniel Vilches:D
     
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  16. toepunt

    toepunt Member

    Aug 24, 2003
    North America
    OK, he can swear in Swedish, but can he speak Chilean?
     
  17. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Sólo leyendo ese artículo de La Tercera, a alguien le queda la impresión que el quiere jugar un Mundial más que jugar por Chile??
     
  18. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Bueno, es la Tercera, los periodistas con cuea saben hacer un copy y paste.
     
  19. SIN DIOS NI LEY

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    No hay problema, es una razón totalmente válida para decantarse por una selección u otra. Incluso un no veo buen futuro en el siguiente ciclo de Suecia y sí en Chile es igual de valedero.
    La ventaja de estar con el momentum.
     
  20. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Según TVN recién, Sampaoli nominaría al porteño Carlos Muñoz:thumbsup: y a este Albornoz:eek:
     
  21. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Y también estaría Paredes.

    Alguien sabe cuándo se entrega la nómina? Yo tenía entendido que era hoy??
     
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  22. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Hmm, no sé. Eso de "querer jugar el Mundial" me recuerda negativamente a por ejemplo Kevin Prince-Boateng, que quería hacer lo mismo mucho más que representar a Ghana.

    Habrá que ver.
     
  23. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Legally, if you lose your citizenship, you are no longer chilean. You could have the chilean ethnicity (in this case, no one can take that away from you), but you wouldn`t be chilean, as to be chilean you must have citizenship in order to consider yourself as so.
    Any foreigner who would acquire the chilean nationality, would be more chilean than whatever you would want to feel about it.

    Btw, you don't lose citizenship over an arbitrary decission, as there are laws provided in our constitution that dictates the reasons or issues, over which on "why" you may lose it. (as an example of this you can find it in those years when Pinochet asumed as president of our government, where despite he hated to his guts all those whom were expelled from the country (specially communists), he couldn't take away from them their nationality and given the nature of their time spent outside of chilean frontiers, when they returned to the country lots of years afterwards, they returned as chileans)

    At last, I don`t believe we are more than 100 chileans in this forum, so using figures of more than a million, is kind of exagerating a little bit the figures here
     
  24. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Alguien ha tenido la oportunidad de ver jugar a Albornoz? Pregunto para saber de manera feaciente sí definitivamente su posición ideal es la de lateral derecho porque según el EMOL (granito de arena) "...se desempeña como lateral izquierdo aunque también puede cumplir por el lado derecho...", parafraseando un poco.

    Y aunque así fuere - que en definitiva juegue por la izquierda - no me molestaría verlo jugar por Chile, aunque en este momento se necesitan más alternativas válidas por la otra banda.

    http://www.emol.com/noticias/deport...ria-el-tapado-de-la-roja-ante-costa-rica.html
     
  25. SIN DIOS NI LEY

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Por la izquierda suena bien porque pasa a ser reemplazante de Mena ante cualquier eventualidad. El sustituto de Isla debiese ser Magnasco. Ahí se completa lo pretendido hace un rato, 2 jugadores por puesto.
     

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