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Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by Yoshou, Oct 5, 2011.
I mention which rounds are "qualifying" and which ones are normal rounds in my original post.
Another big change, potentially, for the lower level teams: Josh Hakala of TheCup.us tweeted today that the tentative date for the first round next year is May 15.
The last few years, the lower leagues had until the end of May to name their qualifiers -- I remember many Memorial Day weekend tournaments and matches.
Also, referencing the model proposed by aperfectring, the NPSL will have more than 38 teams next year. Heard 16 new teams coming in, not sure how many leaving.
And FWIW, I, too, expect the NPSL to keep at least some of its berths, if not all four.
Well. That seems to suggest that there will be at least one more round. And maybe with the NASL coming back in, yet another round will be needed beyond that.
Then again, it could be driven by next year's World Cup qualifying.
Looking forward to seeing what we get. Can't wait to complain about another really bizarre format
Honestly Chapka, I don't want the NPSL to lose any spots because they earned them. I know they have been fighting for their own spots before the whole NASL thing happened. I know someone who has information about this.
I would love for all levels to enter and no remerging. But we shall see what happens. All I'm trying to do is make sense of all of this. We all want a better US Open Cup.
Yes. You've mentioned it before.
WOW! That's early? Sounds like some good news.
I am a foreinger, maybe I am talking s*it, but I guess the 16 US MLS team should be in the cup. Finals 32 teams: 16 MLS each versus one of 6US NASL and 10 survivors from others leagues, the whole 16 games in the "USOpenWeek" Tu-We-Th.
It would be nice, and yes we can tell you are foreigner to the Open cup, it is a money loser, and must clubs in lower levels don't have the travel budgets.
It would be nice what you say, but soccer is not a big profit making business in the USA (outside MLS).
TheCup.us with the scoop on the proposed 2012 U.S. Open Cup format
* 64 teams
* 1st round: 32 amateur, not clear how those will be split between PDL, NPSL, USASA and US Club Soccer
* 2nd round: 16 first-round winners vs. 16 teams from NASL (if sanctioned) and USL Pro
* 3rd round: 16 second-second winners vs. 16 MLS teams (all the U.S. teams)
Tournament starts in mid-May and done by August to make way for CONCACAF Champions League. USASA has been informed champions must be declared by May 1.
Proposal awaiting confirmation from MLS Competition Committee
Mid -May to Say end of August.
That is about 16 weeks.
Possible, sure, but it will leave less time between games for advertisement.
So I assume that NASL and USLPRO would have to figure out a way to get down to 16 from what ever number of teams they have.
NASL only would have 6 teams (if San Antonio plays) that means that 10 USLPRO teams would enter the Open Cup proper.
There's a rumor over on the USL boards that FCNY will self-relegate to the NPSL. If that happens and USLPRO doesn't add any more teams, it's all nice and neat.
I wonder why they couldn't still do the semifinals that Tuesday before the September FIFA weekend and the Final before the October one. The CCL started in late July this year and they'd likely still have conflicts with an August final.
Because the MLS sides who might still be in the US Open Cup doesn't want to play during the CCL weeks. Which I think is a sad way of scheduling the US Open Cup. You don't see Manchester United bitching about playing in the FA Cup while you go and play in the UCL.
I think when they see the scheduling of the CCL Qualifying Round & Group Stages, they might have to have the final in September. Don't forget that in 2012 MLS will take a break during those international calendar gams when the USA opens their World Cup Qualifying campaign on June 8th & 11th, September 7th & 11th, October 12th & 16th.
I still think that they can get these matches done, so let's say that what's being reported that May 15th is the first round proper matches, then maybe something like this can be done.
Round 1 Proper May 15th
Round 2 Proper May 22nd
Round 3 Proper May 29th
World Cup Qualifiers June 8th thru June 12
Round 4 Proper June 19th
Quarterfinal July 10th
CCL Qualifying Round week 1st Leg July 17th thru July 19th
CCL Qualifying Round week 2nd Leg July 24th thru July 26th
Semi-Finals July 31st
CCL Group stage week Round 1 Aug 7th thru 9th
FIFA Friendly Date Wednesday Aug 15th.
CCL Group stage week Round 2 Aug 21st thru Aug 23rd
CCL Group stage week Round 3 Aug 28th thru Aug 30th
USOC Championship Final September 4th
World Cup Qualifiers September 7th thru September 11th.
So what does everyone think about this idea.
Good point. It's too bad because they're still compacting the schedule too much, just starting it earlier.
Except when they skipped it entirely to play in the first FIFA Club World Cup. Arsene Wenger has also in the past complained about the FA Cup being played on weekends. While the FAC is much more of a big deal than the USOC, trust me the big dogs still find it to be an annoyance...
Starting so early is bad for amateur teams, because many times their "stars" are college players that are still in school in may.
Very true. I think US Soccer might move that first round date back by another week. You can still play in the remaining June and July dates with WCQ and the QR of the CCL on the outside. But something tells me the Final is going to be in September.
I'm glad that it seems that all 16 US based MLS teams are going to enter at the same time. This eliminates those stupid play in games and sets up an exciting round of 32.
I enjoy the US Open Cup and wish that MLS fans and teams took it more seriously, and I dislike the current bid process. I have a couple of different trains of thought on how to improve the competition.
The first idea is the idea of automatically giving hosting to the lower league team. This would make an exciting round of 32, as minor league squads would get the chance to host MLS teams and would likely see major boosts in interest.
The second idea is the polar opposite. Let the higher seeded team always host. This would mean the MLS squads would all host a game in the round of 32. The benefit of this is that opening round game can thus be automatically included in all teams' season ticket packages. This could greatly improve awareness and attendance of the competition.
I understand the financial reasons for not doing what I'm about to suggest, but I wish MLS were willing to devote one full weekend to one of the opening rounds (either the round of 32 if MLS teams host that round or the round of 16 which would still likely involve the majority of MLS teams). The Canadian teams could use that weekend for the Canadian Championship.
The Canadian cup needs to be over by July (the start of the CCL) so it would have to be the earliest round.
Which is why the college summer leagues like PDL and the NPSL should probably be ignored for this competition. As for the State-level amateur clubs, they could do like Germany and qualify the previous year's top four or eight and that way they could start early rounds in even April, if not March...
NASL will play the Open Cup next year!
To give a source:
Just got confirmation from USSF that NASL was provisionally sanctioned for 2012 yesterday and will be involved with this years US Open Cup
And now the supporters of the NASL can stop calling it a Closed Cup.
There's been a lot of electricity wasted on the argument over the 'who pays most hosts' approach the USSF has had for the Open Cup. And I've always said "Until the tournament isn't a money loser, that's how it will go."
Well, apparently, it's no longer a money loser. At least, not this year.
I wonder how much that played into the changes to the tournament for 2012.
And I wonder where it should go now. Not that I'm suggesting that things are suddenly different, but it does suggest that it is possible, even at this moderate level of interest, for the tournament to actually make money.
Of course, in this new light, I see the problems with the bidding system. It will be tempting to keep it going forever, especially if the winning teams keep pumping money into the USSF coffers for it.
It would be nice to know what the USSF plans are with the surplus. I haven't managed to wade my way through the article on TheCup.us that my comment is associated with. It's a long one.
Here's hoping the USSF finds a balance between getting paid off and competitive fairness.
I didn't expect profit out of the Open Cup... well, ever. But now that it's happened one year, maybe it can keep happening and within a few years we'll have a that more Open Cup that many hard core fans want to see.
The problem is, the reason why it was profitable is because of the bidding process. Take away the bidding process and it is losing money again. According to the article, it is still struggling to attract sponsors and it is the success, or failure, of attracting sponsors that will end the bidding process. Until then, get used to the current system.
If the reported changes are confirmed, then I'm really looking forward to this year's USOC. I hope Philly get a home game for the first time.
Even the empty bracket looks nice....