Centerback Options

It seems silly to respond to this post, but I guess I will.

1) It's usually quite easy to spot a mental error. Most of Omar's errors are him simply losing his mark. Take the Mexico game for example, on the first goal Omar loses his mark because of a pick. When reviewing the play, you can see that Omar gets eaten up by the pick and doesn't even try to stay with his man, resulting in a free header. I agree with Lalas' interpretation of the play (which I don't always do I must add) - he needs to stay with his man. Barge through the pick if he needs to, but stay with your man. On their 2nd goal, although there were a few other errors by other players, Omar completely loses his mark again. You can even see Goodson point to Pulido as the play is developing showing that he's Omar's man.

2) I'm not opposed to including Besler in the analysis, but I for one, and most people who follow the NT, consider Besler to be our best CB. His spot is secure for the WC unless something drastic happens. Obviously he makes some occasional errors, but far less than his buddy Omar. Just look at his statistics for SKC last year if you want data beyond his service for the NT.

All that said, Gonzo simply makes more errors than Besler. However you want to classify them, he definitely makes more.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to Ream getting another chance. I don't feel Goodson is great this cycle, thought he was better last cycle.

I feel we need more time to make a better backline but of course there isn't any time. Blame Klinsmann, blame MLS/USSF whoever. The options at CB are thin and embarrassing.

 

While you are there, make sure to pick up John O'Brien 2002 and Stuart Holden 2010 KTHX.

 

No, I think Gonzo is the weakest link in my tentative back-4, and the most likely to be replaced. JK probably will give him one more chance to keep his nominal starting spot, but he's holding on by a thread.

As to Cameron at CB, I just don't think JK is going to try that. Cameron was the first younger CB to last any serious time under JK, but that was back in 2012 (after Orozco flopped in 2011). He has hardly played CB since 2012, and doesn't play it for his club. He's a bit too rash for a CB, but his assertiveness suits him better at RB (or DM, but that's another thread). I think Cameron is our best RB these days, plays RB for his club at a high level, and so I'd rather just have some stability and good play at RB, rather than cause turmoil at both RB and CB along the back line.

Three of the back-4 really should be locked in stone and JK should be building cohesion and familiarity before the Cup. I'd only monkey around with Gonzo's spot at RCB -- leave the rest of the backs alone.

 

And Brian McBride, the younger LD and Dempsey when he was in form.

 

Anything besides Dzeko's goal because that goal was a matter of a great player making a great play? No CB in the world stops him from scoring that goal.

You seem to say a lot of things without the evidence to back it up. Go find some highlights on youtube, and tell me which goals. I'm not going to bother any further if you don't want to use evidence to back up what you are saying.

Playing against good teams like Bayern and Gladbach recently, he's been involved in goals. He's not been the sole culprit or the player most at fault, but he's played his part in some goals that Hertha Berlin has leaked recently. He's not done anything great, but not made any big mistakes. He's played his part in some goals, but I don't think its fair to blame him for any of the goals. He's been solid against teams like Bayern and Gladbach. I consider it a big success if a USMNT CB has adequate performances against a team like Bayern. If he can translate that form from the club level to the international level, then I don't see why he doesn't deserve to be starting. He's facing tough competition, and he's having some success. Thats more than you can say about any other USMNT CB.

I've seen all his recent performances. I wasn't watching Hertha Berlin's games when JAB was out injured

Brooks has played well against good opponents. He played well against Bosnia, and he's played well against Bayern and Gladbach in recent weeks.

I agree with you. You seem to be claiming that I said that. Please find where I said that.

It's not a strike against Goodson that he's been consistent against bad competition. I don't understand why that matters when deciding the World Cup roster though. The USMNT will not be facing bad competition at the World Cup, so there is no reason to consider form against bad competition. How does that form against bad competition help against Germany, Portugal and Ghana?

 

I agree with you for the most part, but it comes down to a few factors for me:

1) Although not ideal, I believe in Cameron at CB vs Goodson, Brooks, Gonzo and I guess everyone else. To me he's always looked pretty good at CB, from his time with the Dynamo to his few starts there with the NT. I agree that it's not ideal to place someone playing RB into the CB spot, but given our other options I'd rather do that than anything else.

2) I've always thought Parkhurst to be underrated by most people on these boards. He's a very smart defender. He has more speed than most give him credit for, and he has Champions League experience. Sure he might not get forward as much as some might wish, but I don't think that should be our #1 concern in the WC. We want players at FB that we can count on defensively, especially given the quality of wingers that we're going to face.

Finally, at this moment in time what would you like Klinsmann to roll out for our back 4 against Azerbaijan? You're probably right that he's going to give Gonzo another chance, but I can't say that I agree.

 

Quoted for truth. For years, that has been the biggest bag against Parkhurst, that he doesn't bomb forward. Other than that, I see nothing wrong with his play. Funny, I think Parkhurst is one of those players that looks comfortable with JK but was kind of lost in the weeds when Bob Bradley was coach. Parkhurst is an understated defender, like Jay DeMerit, a guy who isn't flashy but seems to know exactly where to stand. Great positioning and mobility.

If you want my hypothetical "Last Chance" back four, I would go Ream--Gonzo--Brooks--Evans against Azerbajian. I can also see Garza/Beasley and Orozco get looks as well.

 

I don't want to see that back 4 against against Azerbajian - it would only leave us with 2 games to solidify our real back 4 before we're in Brazil. For me it should be used to see who partners Besler best, while giving time to fullbacks who will probably see time at the WC.

 

Just to throw it out there, I would lol if Klinsmann still sees Evans > Cameron at RB, Gonzo > Cameron at CB, and Jones > Cameron at DM, but I wouldn't put it past him.

 

Why did JK sub Goodson in for Besler against Mexico? Why not use that time for some Besler/Goodson minutes? What good was it to see Omar and Goodson together?

Option a) Omar is ahead of Besler in JK's mind
Option b) JK doesn't need to see more of Besler, but wanted to see Omar work through some challenges while also seeing Goodson a bit.

I have been assuming "b," but have to consider that JK believes "a."

 

For what it's worth, Omar said post-game he noticed the pick and mentioned it to Beckerman, but they hadn't had enough time to work on it in practice or something--I can't find the quote now. In any case, I'm not sure how getting picked would be a mental error.

 

I'm not even sure that Omar's family believes A. Klinsmann wanted to get Goodson some playing time, and Besler had shown Klinsmann enough. Gonzalez still had a lot to prove.

 

Picks happen all of the time on soccer set plays and good defenders fight through them to stay with their mark. This isn't basketball. Gonzo was marking Rafa since he is Mexico's most dangerous aerial threat. If he would rather pass off his responsibility to a smaller player because of a pick that he can see coming, then who needs him? Klinsmann should have kept Boca on the squad just so he can get in these young CB's faces to man up in these situations. This is also a big reason why Omar is not much of a scoring threat on set pieces. He just doesn't assert himself enough to get his body in position to score. Omar is great in the air when balls come right at him. Not so great when he has to move laterally for an aerial ball and even less so when closely marked

 

Or, maybe;
c) Klinsmann is considering only taking 3 true CB's and wanted to get more comfortable with Goodson playing at LCB (RCB is his typical position). Playing LCB vs RCB does make a difference for a predominantly right-footed player (or vice-versa) particularly with an opponent that presses.

 

I'm a broken record but defense continues and will be our death. Converted mids at fullbacks, shaky CB's. Klinsmann will escape blame. I feel the blame will be on the player himself if he's terrible and makes a mistake in Brazil. Klinsmann has backing of Gulati, his playing career and the fact he's a "foreign" coach. He will get no backlash. Culture surrounding team isn't intense enough anyways because of the journalists we have.

But I've also said or alluded to USSF at blame for lack backline options, at least with CB. I do however think Klinsmann has no excuse with the fullbacks. Everything is set to fall back on 2018, given the expectations, the strength of the group and the reality of the situation.

 

It wasn't even that tough a pick to get through. Beckerman stepped back and gave him room to run through it, but Omar just stopped. Mex is a small team, if 6'5" Gonzo can't handle a screen from El Tri, what's he going to do against the larger and more athletic Ghana/Port/Germ?

I saw Gonzo's quote as well. I took it as throwing Beckerman under the bus publicly.

“On that play, me and Kyle were talking and I said, ‘Hey, they’re going to pick me, so we have to switch,’” Gonzalez told reporters postgame. “We just haven’t practiced enough set pieces, and I was picked and we weren’t able to switch.”

Well Omar, you didn't have to switch. You read the play wrong both as it happened and before it happened, as you didn't position yourself correctly to get through a pick.

 

I would offer that Besler and Gonzalez have generally been competent as a pairing - and offer me more comfort than did BocaMeritYewu and PopeConradYewu in our last two world cups. I don't understand why the lynch mob comes for Omar for his mistakes but grants Besler a pass for his. I have my theories but no need to go there.

I think Besler is probably the superior player although Omar has two MLS cups to Besler's one. And the uptick in the Galaxy's play as a team when he returned from his knee injury suggests he brings something positive from a teamwork and communication standpoint. I believe there is a double standard with respect to evaluation of their play, and that they have slightly different roles. Omar's negative plays get far more air time than do Besler's. When Omar makes a good 1v1 play it's because he's "scrambling". When Besler makes one it's because he's "smart".

I also think US fans are naive to expect error-free play from the centerback position. We've never had real quality at the position but posters act like we should suddenly expect Italy-level defensive play just because.