CCL - Sporting KC at Cruz Azul 3/19 9pm p/i/p [R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Buzz Killington, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    Just don't bother on the whole system thing. I don't say this because I disagree with you. I would prefer we actually put more value on skill than hustle in our offensive plan.

    However-- and this is important -- it is not going to change. Vermes does what he does. His contract was extended through 2017 , and that was before winning a cup.

    So , for your own sanity , don't rage against the system. It will all be for not.
     
  2. USAfan101

    USAfan101 Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Olathe, Kansas
    sometimes it works and sometimes you need to be able to adjust to the situation and/or your opponent...wouldn't you like to see Bieler and Dwyer on the field at the same time...also need someone staying home, sitting in the hole to protect the back 4....panic defending and lumping the ball forward to the lone striker ain't getting it done.
     
  3. USAfan101

    USAfan101 Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Olathe, Kansas
    I know...Pete does what Pete does...this embarrassing loss just set me off... three frustrating games in a row.
     
  4. terps

    terps Member+

    Dec 27, 2009
    Overland Park
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, all things considered, without Sinovic, Meyers, Collin, and obviously with the retirement of Jimmy, we had a whole new defensive unit against our toughest opponent in their home at altitude.

    I think Vermes' biggest enemy may be his personality, who knows. From the outside looking in, he makes odd decisions using 2nd tier players in huge games like Gardner and Peterson who have not shown much ever, when guys like Sapong and even Bieler at the end of last season, find themselves in the doghouse or in Orlando for whatever reason.

    I'd really love to know why Collin wasn't in the starting 11 tonight. Was it because Opara saved our rear ends a few times in the 1st leg, and he considered him a good luck charm or something? Guys like Collin and Besler should play every game, especially given all the changes to the others in defense listed above.

    As far as Kronberg, remember, the same type of over-committing and subsequent collision with Collin in the Seattle game cost us an away win in the opener. I just think he's totally different than Jimmy, and a little skittish as a supposed anchor. He may pan out, but not a good start so far, in my opinion.
     
  5. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Sinovic suspended, who do you start at left back if not Gardner?
     
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  6. USAfan101

    USAfan101 Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Olathe, Kansas
    Done bitching...its for naught...time to move on to hopefully better times....hopefully starting Saturday.
     
  7. Sparks27

    Sparks27 Member

    Jan 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I also don't understand the so called crazy logic in starting JP. Sapong has sucked and Zizzo and Saad have been nothing special of late.
     
  8. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That and injured...
     
  9. MuddyPitch

    MuddyPitch Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Liberty
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While everyone is harping on Vermes, isn't this (and the other results of the last 24 hours) a bigger knock on the quality of MLS than it is any one coach's or organization's tactical decisions? Defenses were shredded as if they'd never played against or seen a good attacking side before.
     
    USAfan101 repped this.
  10. USAfan101

    USAfan101 Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Olathe, Kansas
    Guess I was just hoping that this might be the year that MLS could break thru...but it seems to be that we aren't quite there yet...we've made progress, the mex teams at least take us serious now and field close to, if not their best team now but we/MLS still have work to do...really wanted SKC to be the first MLS team to win this tourney...maybe next year
     
  11. Oobers

    Oobers Member+

    Oct 17, 2011
    Boise
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Biggest lesson here is to not drop points at home to teams like Real Esteli in the group stage so we don't have to face Liga MX's best right off the bat.
     
  12. terps

    terps Member+

    Dec 27, 2009
    Overland Park
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have a great answer, because, as I have posted a few times over the last week or so, the updated status of certain players is virtually top secret to the general public. From my college and professional experience, I understand that the 18 game-day squad for a soccer coach can be like a national security secret, but as a fan, it is tough to even know what's going on sometimes.

    Going into the game, I would have said start Ellis, Besler, Collin, and Chance. But given we have won a few championships in the last 2 years, and pack the stadium, it is like pulling teeth to find out in the media just how injured a guy like Chance is, and why a perennial starter like Collin is on the bench. But given the way the game turned out, I guess Gardner over Jerome was six of one, half a dozen of the other, with Gardner possibly getting the edge in number of goals allowed by the defense while he was on the field.
     
  13. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Ironically, we could have dropped even more points, and squeaked in as the #8 (San Jose) seed instead of the #7. I would have liked to have SJ's opponent/schedule in knockout stage the way it turned out this year. (Non LigaMX team in Semis, home field advantage in semi's and final)

    But since seeding is so unpredictable, it is of course generally better to be in the top half after group stage. RSL did make it to the Final as the #1 seed, and avoided LigaMX teams until the Final.

    In the end though, if you want to win it and be proud about it, you have to face the best and beat them eventually, ours judgement day just came in the Quarters due to seeding. I wanted us to face the best, and we did. Now we know how we measure up and where we fall (way) short.
     
  14. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, this is no different than the 2-0 loss at home to Houston in 2011, except that we actually have legitimate excuses this time (starting outside backs out, ended up playing 3rd string RB and 2nd string RB at LB).

    Does PV deserve some of the blame? Sure, but fact of the matter is that CA is better than we are. At least right now. I think that if we're both playing at full strength and in midseason form the result is a lot tighter.

    I do think that Opara was fouled on the 3rd goal, not to mention I thought that the foul leading up to that wasn't a foul and before that it was a foul on Feilhaber. That said, I'm not sure it matters too much.

    The guys were not ready to take the next step yet. That's fine - I can handle that... as long as we qualify again for next year and either take that step or are closer to it at that point.
     
  15. ChocolateCandy

    ChocolateCandy Member+

    Real Madrid
    Jul 23, 2009
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder what % of fans at Sporting Park on Saturday won't even know about this game, much less care about the result. Might be higher than you'd think. For the most part, CCL is something only us diehards care about.
     
  16. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    #116 KC96, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    Bottom line - Cruz Azul was a much better team across the board then us. Only Feilhaber was in the same class as them.

    Re: SKC

    We had 4 yellow cards in our back 5 defense while the game was still competitive, which means 1) our defenders were/felt beat and had to do something Yellow Card desperate to stop an attack, and 2) for the rest of the game they had to be super conservative (and even more so since they were so inexperienced) so as not to drop SKC a man down.

    Whatever one thinks about Collin, he still plays pretty close to 100% effectiveness even with a YC. In fact, I think often he plays better because he won't be as reckless.

    Benny Feilhaber is on fire. I still hold to my theory that he is on a "I want to be in WC Brazil" focused mentality, coupled with Sporting Fit-ness, and his already well known technical skills. Besides the goal, he tracked back defensively every time, with hustle, and looked more effective in the defending fullback role then our actual fullbacks. You could see his composure through the TV on either side of the ball. Contrasted to where one could almost feel Jerome's near-panic at times.

    Speaking of WC. If had to take one and only one US attacking player from SKC to the USMNT 23 roster, I'd take Benny right now over Zusi. This is in contrast to all of last year up to October, when Zusi would have been my preference.

    Step it up, gentlemen, if you personally want to be on that plane to Brazil. Step it up also for our club too, as I'd like to win USOC and MLS Cup again.
     
  17. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    #117 KC96, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    Re: Cruz Azul

    ****
    The 4th CA goal - built up by multiple one touches strung together totally in the air (with one purposeful bounce off the ground), with a combination of header and foot work, ending in a goal off the inside of the far post, was a jaw dropping work of beauty and synchronized TEAM play.

    I have never seen anything like that from an MLS club. There was a .gif of it minutes later on the BS forums, it was that good.

    The day when MLS squads can put periodically put forth (or be reasonably expected to put forth) that kind of offensive creativity, AND when MLS squads have been accustomed to defending against that kind of display, is the day MLS can say they have "caught up" to LigaMX. (Oh, and those all important TV ratings/$ will follow along with it)

    That day is certainly not in 2014, nor 2015 for sure.

    But, I've been supporting this league and club in person almost every home game for all 19 seasons. I can be patient and wait many more, while enjoying the ascendancy. Nothing is as exciting long term as growth potential, and even after tonight's reality check measuring stick, MLS still has growth potential going for it in abundance....
     
  18. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    My STH friends who have sat next to me all 19 seasons (we were 4 of the 450, or 1% of the STH base when OnGoal bought KCW) could care less about CCL (or USOC), even as I'm telling them last Sat about what they missed Wed in the KC 1st leg. All they care about is MLS. And that's fine - the league needs "MLS-is-primary" supporters.

    On the other hand, I know many others who only were interested in Soccer/Sporting and only got their STH after Sporting Park was built, yet they are as jazzed and knowledgeable about CCL as any diehard here.

    So the surprises can go both ways. We had a full house for our Wed CCL leg (my friends gave their two tickets to two SKC fans who do care about CCL) with probably 90% SKC fans. That says a lot too.
     
  19. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Sorry, 5th Goal. They scored so many that they are all blurred together to me :(

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/ccl/news/a...-city-1-concacaf-champions-league-match-recap

    1:58 mark here if you can bear to watch it again. I want us to look like that some year.
     
  20. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Not arguably. Cruz Azul is hands down the best team in CONCACAF right now, and it's not even close.
     
    El_Huero repped this.
  21. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The result wasn't all that unexpected. MLS teams have been getting throttled on the away leg to Mexico for years. Honestly, we were lucky it was only 5 -1. The score line was not indicative of the thorough beating applied to SKC. At some point, it would be nice to play Liga MX teams in knock out rounds when MLS teams are in midseason form as MLS goes 0-3 (again). The boys looked tired and slow, and that is completely understandable as they are not match fit yet, plus add in all the travel, altitude and number of games.

    IMO, the biggest difference between the leagues (and the two clubs) is finishing. Liga MX teams have 4 or 5 finishers on the field at a time, MLS teams are lucky to have two. And with our forwards, we're lucky to have one finisher. If JP finishes his 1 v 1 with the keeper early in the game, maybe its a different story. But, he chose to go near post since he has no skill other than running hard and hits it straight at the keeper. Hopefully the new Spanish guy gives us a second finisher at the forward spot.

    On the back end, Kronberg has another game where he over commits off his line and gives up a goal. I'm ready to see the Hebrew Hammer.
     
  22. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair if our 2 goals have proven anything it's that Corona was weak on covering his near post...
     
  23. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    It would have been fun to see this game played with a well rested team and our usual back line run out. Get all of Cruz Azul's starters out there too, since they were missing a few key players. Not saying we would have won, but that would have been one hell of an entertaining game.

    The result sucks, but, honestly, I'm over it already. Really short mourning period on this one for me. To me, this was a learning game kind of like playing the away leg in Houston in the 2012 playoffs. In order to make a run in the CCL knock-out stage, we've got two huge things to work on:

    1) Results in the group stage. The home draws against Olimpia and especially Real Esteli are just plain unacceptable. In order to make a run in the knock-out stage, we have to earn a higher seed. The difference between playing a club like Cruz Azul in March compared to April or May is huge.

    2) Suspensions. The silly cards have got to stop. Yes, it's CONCACAF, yes, you are going to pick up unwarranted cards sometimes, but Ellis and Sapong grabbing yellows for situations they simply shouldn't be in, Sinovic grabbing a yellow for time wasting, these are stupid, stupid, stupid yellow cards. Sinovic being suspended the second leg of Cruz Azul can't happen if we want a chance to move on.

    We know what we've got to do, so, eyes on the 2014-15 CCL Group Stage. Or, for the shorter term, eyes on Saturday, we've got some ground to make up.
     
  24. Soccer7947

    Soccer7947 Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Kansas
    I would just like to say how much I enjoy Benny over the ball on restarts instead of Zusi. I don't like the balls Zusi puts in. I think that Benny has a way better delivery then Zusi does. My wife who doesn't even know the game brings it up to me all the time. I am wondering if I am the only one who thinks this.
     
  25. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Altitude probably played a big part in yesterday's set pieces, but yes, in general, I agree. Zusi has a tendency to push the ball too far. Especially on corners.
     

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