can it ever be a reality in england?

why do you say I have no clue about ticket pricing, or the fights at games? I understand those things just fine.
your post up there makes no sense, not because you think I'm ignorant but because the difference in game atmosphere in the states compared to Euro has nothing to do with soccer mom's, or the fact that you think thugs like the nba better.

 

Indeed. Given the close proximity of teams in Europe, football became a very convenient vehicle for people looking for "trouble" to latch onto and (often violent) rivalries formed. Large numbers of visiting fans go to games on a week in, week out basis. In the US, visiting fans are a rarity. Even when teams are in close proximity, the structure of US leagues mean they play relatively rarely. Thus, although it's true that visiting fans get treated much better in the US, it's kind of a moot point because there simply wasn't and isn't the vehicle in the US for sports to be a place for regular fan conflict.

Someone earlier mentioned that England had merely put a "band aid" on fan violence. You've got to be kidding. As someone who regular went to games there in the '70's and '80's, there is absolutely no comparison between then and now.

 

what about college football? Red River rivalry game between Texas and O.U is huge and split in the stadium 50/50, what about "the worlds largest cocktail party" played every year, (as well as this weekend) between Florida and Georgia, that crowd is split 50/50. These are only a couple examples of intense rivalries that stay for the most part, civil.

 

The crowds at college football games tend to come from a relatively low-violence demographic. That is, people who are attending or have attended college. It's not surprising that those events are pretty peaceful, given the attendees.

 

here is your quote earlier in the conversation,
"That being said, there has never really been an organized movement of violent supporters in the US. It's just individuals (usually drunk) engaging in isolated acts of violence. "

you implied in that quote that U.S patrons might just be more civil

 

Additionally, how many away games a year is your average college football fan attending? Probably not the 20 to 30 readily accessible games your typical European fan has at their disposal.

Having said that, the worst sports-related violence I've witnessed in the US was in New Orleans the night before a Tulane football game. I forget what college they were playing.

 

There are a lot of college graduates/attendees at college football games -- probably a higher proportion than the national average (around 30%) -- but no way it pushes anywhere near saturation. I'm finding that it's only around 35%.

 

I never implied that American sports fans are somehow better people than their Euro counterparts, as a group. It's just that various factors have made it difficult for the worst among them to act on their worst impulses in an organized manner.

 

After reading the account on how much this idiot had to drink, it's a wonder he wasn't in a coma before he got to the stadium!

I've seen reports on Real Sports and Outside the Lines about NFL fan behavior at some games. Many fans seem to be getting turned off by bad fans at some venues, and alcohol is usually the root cause for the bad behavior. Pretty sad really.

 

How long ago was this? Tulane football's been so bad the past 15 years--they hardly draw flies. I can't believe their fan base would be as rabid and abusive as someone from a larger school or more prestigious conference. I read one account where a football fan said the best part of the Red River rivalry was hanging around the parking lot afterwards to watch Oklahoma and Texas fans engage in fisticuffs!

 

I actually find the way support is changing in England pretty depressing. On one hand you have the unmistakeable gentrification, with younger fans forced out of the game through price, to be replaced by more placid older spectators. Couple that with all-seater grounds, and there doesn't seem to be the same buzz that there used to be.

Perhaps more depressing though is that nature of support even when the fans do sing. There's always been a blend of supporting your team and having a bit of a dig at the other lot, but now it seems to mainly about having a go at the other fans rather than getting behind your team.

It is weird. In many ways the game here is on something of a high, but with genuine match-going fans, there seems to be a huge amount of dissatisfaction about how things are going.

 

Early '90's.

 

dosnt matter that much, but I still dont think that some sort of brawl or fight somewhere not at the stadium, the night before a game, is a good example.

 

I think the discontent partly is a product of the football media these days. The papers are always looking for a story rather than actually reporting on the matches, and the natural result of that is that papers question whether a manager will be sacked after any bad run. Many even seemed to be speculating that Brendan Rogers would be sacked at Liverpool after the first match of the season.

The internet, along with radio phone-in shows, have also made an easy soap-box for those wishing to moan, and the more reactionary and unbalanced an individual is, the more likely they'll register their protest.

They money going into the game, especially from rich owners, has also skewed the perception of how clubs should be run. Owners, apparently, should be pumping millions into the team, and any club that isn't pushing for promotion/europe/the title, regardless of the ability to do so, is "lacking ambition".


You also have the impact of books and films hugely glamourising hooligansism of the past, with many growing up thinking it "cool". You also have the "no colours" attitude of the fans of top clubs, sick of being labelled glory-hunters, who refuse to wear shirts/colours because they don't want to be associated with camera-wielding day-trippers at their ground. I can understand that at the top clubs, but it's a bit ridiculous when you get fans of Walsall making the same stance, as if The Bescot is beseiged by tourists from Japan and coaches from Surrey every other Saturday.

 

this quote made me chuckle, your comparisons to US support are horrible, ticket prices here have skyrocketed and priced people out, especially in the nba. and you must not listen to sports talk radio here, or even read the sports section much, the majority of it is negative, plenty of people here offer the same exact criticism you talk about toward owners who do not consistently win our pump more money into the club, our are ready to jump off bridges on monday if there nfl team didnt win. so, to say that it's diff in England then anywhere else is false.

 

Not that intense then are they?

Seriously though, I'm sure there is great intensity and rivalry on the field but in the stands?
Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what fan rivalry really is if you are seriously comparing that as close to soccer rivalry in the UK back in the days of hooliganism - I would have to take you back to a Liverpool V Man Utd or Man Utd V Leeds game in the 70' or 80's for you to appreciate that fact. I would need you to sign a waver on your safety first though.
Back then it really was like going into enemy territory on away days.

Things are different now, there is nothing like the same intensity in the stands and it is probably more like the events you mention above in the stands (seating now) - your only chance of catching a faint echo of the atmosphere of those days would be to travel with away support to a big rivalry game.

It is difficult to know why there was so much violence back then but it could be a combination of many factors, including a deep recession, big strikes and social unrest, poor policing methods, all standing terraces, the almost exclusively young male demographic, to name a few possible factors. Also it is hard to put a finger on why the soccer rivalries in the UK and other places are/were so much more intense than in US sports. It has been pointed out that the close proximity of the rival cities is a factor and I am sure that is true, more travelling fans and a true city rivalry. Also having clubs from the same city where you would have to suffer the humiliation of jibes in work or the pub or your neighbourhood for weeks or even months - even years after in some cases. Then there is the point about soccer being traditionally supported by lower income inner city folk, mostly made up of young men. Lots of testosterone booze and peer pressure. Then finally there are cultural differences of how the cities grew up and developed - the rivalry between Liverpool and Manchester is economic, cultural and historic. There is some of that in the US not to the same extent or as keenly felt. We even talk very differently, it is like two different countries 30 miles apart.

The question is can you have that sort of rivalry and passion without it sometimes spilling over into violence?
I would like to think you can get close, the Bundesliga is a fantastic example of how to maintain fan culture and rivalries without it spilling over into riots but although the game-day atmosphere is great and beats most English games it doesn't get that close to the bad old/good old days which I remember with a shameful pride.

Just please don't hold up those examples of college football rivalries as relative comparisons to soccer in the UK in the 70's and 80's. You can compare it with soccer in the UK now if you like but then there isn't any hooliganism in the UK now so it defies the point.

 

Laker fans mini-riot in the 2000s following an NBA championship?

 

Not exactly "organized".

 

Not exactly unexpected either

 

Leeds fans, nasty buggers they are.