News: California Golden Bears

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by falvo, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Hold on a second. We've talked about de-emphasizing the final four, but that isn't the same as de-emphasizing the entire NCAA tournament.

    Grimes has led Cal to three quarterfinals (and all three times was eliminated by an eventual national finalist). Prior to his arrival, the team had never advanced that far, not even once.
     
  2. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    If we look at QF appearances, since the start of the century, which also happens to be Grimes first year at Cal so that makes for a convenient starting point, Cal and Grimes stack up pretty well.

    Only nine programs have reached the QFs more than Cal has in that time and they are in a 7-way tie for eighth. That's the good. The bad is that of the 16 teams that have made the QFs three times this century, only one hasn't advanced to the Final Four at least once. I assume I don't need to point out which program that is.

    Of the 25 teams that have made multiple tips to the QFs, 20 of them, or 80 percent, have made at least one Final Four.

    During this time 28 programs have made the Final Four at least once.

    NINE
    Maryland – 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013

    EIGHT
    North Carolina – 2000, 2001, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

    SEVEN
    Creighton – 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2008, 2011, 2012
    UCLA – 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011

    SIX
    Connecticut – 2000, 2002, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013
    Indiana – 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2012

    FIVE
    Virginia – 2000, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2013

    FOUR
    Southern Methodist, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2010
    Wake Forest – 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

    THREE
    Akron – 2005, 2009, 2010
    California – 2005, 2010, 2013
    Clemson – 2001, 2002, 2005
    Louisville – 2010, 2011, 2012
    Notre Dame – 2006, 2007, 2013
    St. John’s – 2001, 2003, 2008
    Stanford – 2000, 2001, 2002

    TWO
    Duke – 2004, 2006
    Michigan – 2003, 2010
    New Mexico – 2005, 2013
    Northwestern – 2006, 2008
    Saint Louis – 2001, 2003
    Santa Clara – 2003, 2006
    South Florida – 2008, 2011
    Tulsa – 2004, 2009
    UC Santa Barbara – 2004, 2006

    ONE
    Boston College - 2002
    Bradley - 2007
    Brown - 2000
    Charlotte, 2011
    Drake - 2009
    Fairleigh Dickinson - 2001
    Georgetown - 2012
    Illinois-Chicago – 2007
    Massachusetts - 2007
    Michigan State - 2013
    Ohio State - 2007
    Penn State - 2002
    Saint Mary’s - 2011
    San Diego - 2012
    Virginia Commonwealth - 2004
    Virginia Tech - 2007
    Washington - 2013

    BTW, I find it ironic that many who criticize Jorge Salcedo for underachieving at UCLA when he's done more in a shorter time in terms of QF and FF appearances than Grimes has at Cal and yet Grimes is given a pass. Yes, UCLA has tradition and Salcedo inherited a national power while Grimes built Cal into one - for which I must be clear I give him full credit - but both programs offer great academics, a nice campus, awesome weather and have a great recruiting base with reasonable (in-state) tuition.
     
  3. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Probably because UCLA somehow are believed to be the top team in the region are expected to win year in and year out getting all the top major recruits from around the state and entire country. I mean how many national team players have they had historically?

    Just off the top of my head...

    Bocanegra, Caligiuri , Feilhaber, Bornstein, Conrad, Ervine, Freidel, Hejduk, Henderson, Hooker, Jones, Krumpe, Max-Moore, Razov and Vanole......
     
  4. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    I see it as a mistake to treat the two as equals. UCLA gets the pick of the litter and probably always will. Cal is a much more modest program, almost entirely in-state kids, and it punches above its weight.

    Incidentally, UC tuitions are now as high as most top public universities, and residential costs are very high, as well. A friend of mine has one child at Stanford and another at a UC, and she actually pays less for the one at Stanford because of the financial aid they offer.

    http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2012/07/18/csu-and-uc-tuition-hikes-over-time/
     
    midfieldmadness, Sandon Mibut and FLaves repped this.
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I'm not sure but I think UC schools have some type of stipulation about enrolling out of state students. I remember a friend of mine in the 80's saying something about it when he went to Berkeley. I'm pretty certain student athletes have it a little easier but I heard something similar when it comes to handing out scholarships.
     
  6. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    If you are hiring a coach do you consider if they won a championship? Sure? But is that anywhere close to the top of the list, no way.

    The tournament selection is a joke. Cal got more guys drafted in the first two rounds than many conferences have had in the entire history of the draft. The prior year, the NCAA selection committee didn't deem Cal good enough to make the tournament. Didn't think Stanford was good enough either despite having Adam Jahn being one of the most productive first year players in MLS and Gunn having at least two other MLS players in Kovar and Koval, plus Hunter Gorskie who started for the Cosmos as well as Dersu Abalfethi who was the #1 recruit in the country and is possibly trying to make it somewhere around the globe and whose who else they might have.

    Yet with all those pros Gunn couldn't even get Stanford into the tournament, let alone the final 4. Meanwhile his successor has made the tournament the past two years. How many professionals has Charlotte sent to MLS? How does that reconcile with your theories? Meanwhile when Gunn and Grimes couldn't even make it into the tournament UNC had to play home games against mighty UMBC and Farleigh Dickenson and then all they had to do is win a home game against the 16th seed to make it into the final four but they choked. Meanwhile Maryland, the other ACC with a shot to make it to the final 4 had to beat the Brown and Coastal Carolina before playing a home game against 10 seeded Louisville. So beating a couple of cupcakes an winning a home game makes you a great coach? Meanwhile really good teams out West can't even get into the tournament and when they do they are matched up against other very good teams. If they manage to survive they get to travel a couple of time zones east which as anyone who has traveled knows is much harder than going west. I completely respect your knowledge about college soccer but you have big time blinders here.
     
  7. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Teams don't have equal chances to make the tournament that is also a fact. You can choose to believe that coaches in the West with all their professional talent is underachieving - and to some extent they might very well be. But the more rational and obvious explanation is that the tournament selection and seeding process is very flawed.
     
  8. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    That is because UCLA is completely loaded with talent. Also as the top seed in the West his teams are somewhat buffered by the seeding bias. But in fairness recruiting is part of the coaching definition in college and by that measure Grimes is not very strong. How Salcedo gets all these top players to come to UCLA and rot away on the bench is impressive. While Cal and UCLA are somewhat similar, I'd say you also have to look the athletic dept., facilities and money available, not to mention tradition. It is not like Cal's football or basketball teams are the top of the Pac-12. While Northern California has much nicer weather than most places in the country it doesn't have the beaches that LA does.
     
  9. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Is that comparison with Stanford in-state or out of state?
     
  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Sandon Mibut repped this.
  11. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    In-state, although I don't believe that it'd be any different out-of-state.
     
  12. midfieldmadness

    Aug 12, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Yep. Depending on family financial status now days it can be cheaper for a California kid to go to Stanford or the Ivies than to UC because of financial aid packages.
     
  13. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    In state tuition to UCLA is estimated at $32K and out of state is estimated at $55K which is within a few thousand dollars of private schools like Stanford. From everything I've read, California HS students are having a tougher get into UC colleges because they (as are non-California schools) are reserving more and more slots for out of state students that bring in more revenue. So if Cal soccer isn't all that well funded, it could explain why Grimes depends so much in state players.
     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Hararea repped this.
  16. mosca

    mosca Member

    Sep 13, 1999
    Honolulu
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    mosca repped this.
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  21. Lolonearbyyolo

    Apr 17, 2006
    Section 138
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He must be grateful for being rescued
     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    US U20 Trevor Haberkorn must be nearing a decision on where to transfer:

    Trevor Haberkorn ‏@THaberkorn7 Apr 4
    In Cali Time to see what Cal Berkeley is all about

    Trevor Haberkorn ‏@THaberkorn7 Apr 6
    I'll see you later Cal Berkeley. It was super real
     
    Sandon Mibut repped this.
  23. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    After losing Birnbaum and Dean they certainly have an obvious need for a starter at central defense.

    Would seem like a good fit.

    Also, I'm guessing if we looked for it we could find a connection between Kevin Grimes, who went to college in Dallas, and Haberkorn's youth coaches in his hometown of... Dallas.
     
  24. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Fwiw, Grimes was also an assistant at SMU for a few years, so you're right that connections are likely to exist. Even so, I don't believe that he's ever had a single Texan at Cal. (His rosters have been almost entirely in-state.)
     

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