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Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by falvo, Sep 15, 2009.
Great coaching at Cal, Kevin Grimes has done a fantastic job.
Very nice. This is similar to the trip to Sweden that the basketball team took. The basketball team started off the season great, let's hope this overseas trip does the same for the soccer team.
Is it great coaching or great recruiting? Their 3-9-5 record in 2011 has to make you think about it right? The great coaches don't have 3 win seasons at this level so was it bad coaching this past season or bad recruiting? Again, I don't know, just think there's more to it than that...
I can't say what the problem was for Cal last year as I didn't see them play enough. I suspect their youth had a lot to do with it. That said, the few times I did see them play, they looked a lot better than their record indicated. With the number of players they have returing this year (I think virtually everyone will be back), I expect they will be much improved and very competitive in the Pac-12. I don't think they'll have another losing record.
Cal reached the NCAA Tournament quarterfinal round in 2010 and wound up tying eventual national champion Akron only to fall to them on pk's. The Bears had a 14-2-4 record in 2010 and many players were awarded handsomely. AJ Soares was voted Pac-10 Player of the Year and GK David Bingham went on to sign a Generation Adidas contract with the MLS -SJ Earthquakes. Soares went to the New England Revolution, Paul went to the Chicago Fire and midfielders Servando Carrasco went to the Seattle Sounders. Hector Jimenz (who scored his first MLS goal last night before being red carded) went to the Los Angeles Galaxy as David Beckham's backup. Defender Demetrius Omphroy went to the Toronto FC and is now out of the game doing rock videos as he had a serious health condition. In all, Cal lost a total of seven seniors after the 2010 season also losing defender Scott Van Buskirk and midfielder Anthony Avalos who just signed a pro contract with a Norwegian Second Division team. Considering they had many players leave in 2010, 2011 was a rebuilding year. I'm not using this as an excuse mind you but losing 7 seniors who made the final 8 the year before, you are bound to lose something.
So that tells me they did a really good job recruiting for the class that finished in 2010 and but a really bad job with the ones after. Its not the coaching that determines their success, but their recruiting... At least thats what your data points to because if it were great coaching, they would have done better than a 3 win season no matter how many players they lost. It is Cal after all.
I don't think Falvo's post necessarily leads to the conclusion that the recruiting was necessarily bad for the classes after 2010. With so many young and untested players last year - all of whom will be returning this year - the jury is still out on how good they are. As I mentioned earlier, when I saw them play, I thought their quality was much better than their results last year. As for the quality of the coaching? I'm not informed enough to say, but the program has had a lot more success since Grimes has come in - and a lot of his players have gone on to the MLS. Whether that's coaching or recruiting seems hard to tease out (especially since a major part of coaching college soccer IS recruiting the right players).
It depends on how you look at it. You can go after 23 year old Jr's and/or play makers (from other countries around the world as other schools are doing) who care nothing about graduating from college but are only in school to play soccer for a year or two. Grimes at least has many of his students graduate with a degree. Also, all of his players (with the exception of a sophomore GK from Arizona) are all local or from California while other schools are getting players from other parts of the country and/or from Jr colleges. Anyway, hopefully they will improve on last years record but if you look at Grimes record in the last 10 years, last season was his only losing season and thats a pretty good track record in my opinion....
2002 -Overall: 14-6-2
2003- Overall: 11-9-2
2005- Overall: 14-4-3
2006 -Overall: 13-6-1
2007- Overall: 12-6-2
2008- Overall: 12-4-5
2009- Overall: 10-5-2
2010- Overall: 14-2-4
2011- Overall: 3-9-5
Exactly. You can't win every year but looking back, Grimes was named Pac-10 Coach of the Year in 02,05, 06, 07 and 2010 and has won the Pac-10 Championship in 06, 07 and 2010. He advanced to the NCAA Elite 8 in 2005 and 2010 so I'm sure he is doing something right.
I'm not here to rip Grimes. All I am contesting is that someone said "great coaching by Grimes" when one of his former players went pro. Don't believe that is the case here and its nothing personal, just stating the facts.
1) I think pro potential is determined before college, and that college is then the platform to showcase that potential. Therefore I would celebrate how much talent Grimes has successfully recruited, not the coaching as much
2) When I look at the great programs in college soccer, they don't have 3 win years even when they lose a huge class like Cal did. Usually, the coach finds a way to stay competitive, reinvent the team, focus on their strengths, etc. when they lose talent whether its through recruiting or coaching... Top programs don't have 3 win seasons because their coaches don't let it happen:
Akron 2011 still won 15 games, NCAA Sweet 16 after losing 5 Generation Adidas, 2 graduating starters, Speas to UNC
Wake Forest 2011, get 8 wins and advance to NCAA 2nd Round with 0 seniors rostered
Michigan 2011 still won 5 games (including v. Akron) despite losing Meram, Saad, H Saad, Blais, and 4 other contributing Seniors - Coach got fired after the 5 win season too
My point is there are other teams who lose as much talent or don't have that Senior class but still have success (against tougher schedules, mind you). Whatever the route is, the great coaches find a way to keep their teams competitive. That was it. Don't think you can call it great coaching when a team has 3 wins, no matter the circumstance.
I think you read too much into the great coaching by Grimes comment in response to the player going pro. Westfan says Grimes has done a fantastic job, and that seems to be true. If Westfan's post was in response to an article talking about their 3 win season, and he said "great job by Grimes," your point would be well taken. But, in the context of the other seasons Grimes has had, and where Cal was before he came, it's hard to argue that he hasn't done a great job at Cal (I may be wrong but I have a vague memory of them not winning an NCAA game before he got here, but they certainly hadn't had nearly the success as he's brought).
If your point is that, Cal's 3 win season last year would not have happened with one of the elite coaches in the country at one of the top programs. Fair enough. I think few would argue (though Falvo may disagree with me) that Cal is an elite program. If your point is that Grimes is not one of the top coaches in the country. Again, fair enough. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. If your point is to distinguish is recruiting ability from his "coaching" ability, seems a bit like splitting hairs about his abilities as a coach. Regardless, to me, having seen Cal in the 90s compared to the teams under Grimes generally, it's hard to argue that he hasn't done a great job at Cal.
I totally get where you are coming from on your comments about previous success and obviously they've come a long way... but how many programs could you make this comment about that:
"Regardless, to me, having seen [insert school] in the 90s compared to the teams under [insert coach] generally, it's hard to argue that he hasn't done a great job at [insert school]"
To clarify, I was talking about their progress relative to competition. I agree that most programs are probably way better than they were in the 90s in an absolute sense. Anyway, I get your point on Cal and I think you get mine. Enjoy the long weekend!
I think Cal's play in 2012 will be a really good indicator of the quality of Grimes' coaching. After all, the roster is essentially the same as it was last fall. With that extra year of training from Grimes, how much progress will they make? Anyone think they'll win 3 games again?
Ted Jones is coming back also after red shirting last year and I think Kyle Lunt will start coming into his own as well as a central defender but also has the ability to play multiple positions.
Yeah, I thought about bringing up Jones. If you count him as a post-2010 loss, then they lost 9 of the top 12 players from that team. Personally, I have a lot of respect for Grimes' patient approach to rebuilding after that, rather than trying for a quick fix.
By the way, are you able to share any word on how their goalkeeping should be this fall? In any case, thanks for contributing info on the team.
Kevin Peach standing 6ft 6inches is a sophomore from Mitty HS in San Jose after redshirting in 2010 and may start. Robby Gogatz 6 ft talll and is another good GK who redshirted in 2010 behind David Bingham and will be a Jr this year. The two will be batting it out for the #1 but even though I saw Gogatz save a pk in a game and is a good player, I like Peach a lot and I have a feeling he may be the main guy. sophomore S
Calen Carr's Goal Against Valencia CF
Steve Purdy gets high praise from Salvadoran media and fans for his performance against Mexico:
Andrew Jacobson article:
Pac-12 Networks Men's Soccer TV Schedule
2012 Pac-12 Networks Men’s Soccer Televised Schedule
Date Time (PT) Matchup
Aug. 24 5:00 PM Gonzaga at Washington
Aug. 24 7:00 PM New Mexico at UCLA
Sept. 7 4:30 PM Central Florida at California
Sept. 7 4:30 PM Tulsa at UCLA
Sept. 9 2:00 PM UC-Irvine at UCLA
Sept. 21 4:00 PM Loyola Marymount at Stanford
Sept. 23 12 Noon Loyola Marymount at California
Sept. 23 12 Noon UC-Irvine at Oregon State
Sept. 23 12 Noon Seattle University at Washington
Sept. 28 4:00 PM UCLA at Stanford
Sept. 30 4:00 PM UCLA at California
Sept. 30 4:00 PM Oregon State at Washington
Oct. 4 7:00 PM California at Stanford
Oct. 5 3:00 PM Oregon State at UCLA
Oct. 8 7:00 PM Washington at UCLA
Oct. 12 3:00 PM California at Washington
Oct. 14 12 Noon Stanford at Washington
Oct. 18 5:00 PM Oregon State at Stanford
Oct. 19 1:00 PM Washington at California
Oct. 21 3:00 PM Washington at Stanford
Oct. 26 1:00 PM UCLA at Oregon State
Oct. 28 2:00 PM San Diego State at Oregon State
Oct. 29 7:00 PM UCLA at Washington
Nov. 1 7:00 PM Stanford at UCLA
Nov. 4 5:00 PM California at UCLA
Nov. 9 2:00 PM Stanford at California
Nov. 9 2:00 PM Washington at Oregon State
Nov. 9 2:00 PM San Diego State at UCLA
Pac-12 Networks to Air 8 Cal Men's Soccer Games Bears Announce 18-Game Regular-Season Schedule, With 10 at Home
Wow, that's a lot of college soccer on TV.
Now I gotta go make sure my provider adds Pac-12 TV!
Yeah I'm not sure about the provider. We have Comcast and Satellite on the West coast but I only have cable and not sure if I can watch this network in my complex.
Same here, DIRECTV better step their game up because although I love them I will drop them if they don't carry the Pac 12 network.