Burn a Koran day 9/11

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by CHICO13, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So the legal defense is that I burned a book, drew a cartoon, pissed on the cross, etc, etc. but I did not intent to incite violence, I uploaded the video to YouTube because I thought it was funny.

    Should the people behind the draw Mohamed day be arrested also?
     
  2. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're giving him WAY too much credit. I don't think he even knows what he meant.
     
  3. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No i believe that peopel ahve a right to hate. Whetehr your geert wilders or a radical Imam.I also dont think the government should be regulating what you can and cannot wear. Im sorry if personal freedom offends you.
     
  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read (CNN I think, or the economist) that most (2/3 I think) of Americans are against the ban on the Burka.

    4 or 5 European countries (Germany and France included) are in favor (Majority of the polled)
     
  5. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the people who need to be held responsible are the one's interfering with other people's pursuit of life, liberty and happiness (especially the life part - that's kind of a prerequisite for the other two). not the people who are exercising their constitutional rights.
     
  6. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is there no libertarism in europe?
     
  7. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was listening to the BBC yesterday, and a French person defending the ban was going on and on about the shared culture and how Muslims needed to respect that. I guess personal freedoms and liberties aren't part of the "shared" French culture. seemed a bit ironic to me.
     
  8. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree you share the culture but no one should force you. I think immigrants in this country should speak english otherwise go back to your country . i wouldnt though want the government to force them into citizenship classes or jailing them if they dont learn english.
     
  9. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think immigrants in this country should (and do) have the freedom to learn the language, or keep their own - whichever suits them best. just don't expect the rest of us (including the Government) to go out of our way to accommodate your choice not to learn English. too bad so sad if that prevents you from getting an education, get a job, complete basic government forms, etc.
     
  10. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    me to however i do agree with religious exceptions in public places because of the first amendment. Nobody should be jailed for not wanting to speak english.
     
  11. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Immigrants to the UK now need to have a basic understanding of English as a pre-requisite to entry. I don't think it applies to asylum-seekers though.

    P.S. I hate how "asylum-seekers" has become a dirty word in the UK.
     
  12. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    don't blame the seekers.
    blame the asylum.
     
  13. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is always the issue; people should have personal freedoms, responsibilities.

    What when they make the wrong choices?

    Telling them oh well you made your bed now lay on it, is one option.

    But most develop countries try to set up welfare, social entities to take care of those people.

    In the long run, we all end up paying for people that make bad decisions.

    Other wise we come across as cruel. Then again, what if people do the right thing and still fall bad and end up needing help? How do we tell them apart?
     
  14. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    they have the freedomm to make wrong choices . it not the governments job to be there mommy and daddy.
     
  15. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose you can try to give them an opportunity to help themselves.
    don't reward bad choices.
    what most Governments do is try to make them whole, and in the process either perpetuate their mistakes, or make their situation worse.
     
  16. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am (clearly) not a lawyer but there is some line in the sand than should be drawn. In the classic example, one could argue that if people didn't panic, than no one would have been hurt.

    Personally, I don't think book burning, cartoons, or speech should be limited except in obvious circumstances in which such speech would likely directly result in others being hurt. But this view is not universal and I am attempting to keep the discussion going so I can judge where the line in the sand should be drawn.


    And no soccermilitant, personal freedom doesn't offend me. Smelly socks and bad breath do, however.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Actually offensive acts in public places have long been restricted
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    it wouldn't be.

    i really think you are glossing over the context.

    i doubt you'll be arrested for your piece of performance art
     
  19. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if others are harm then how is that the fault of the person doing the speech? Unless theysay 'go over here and kill that person" in no way should it be restricted no matter how offensive it is.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So if you go on a killing spree because of it, then we should arrest people with stinky feet, or only if they intentionally left stinky socks for you to smell?
     
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is why the dudes from Islamic revolution that just insinuated that some one could kill the south park creators get away with their hate speech, because they do not directly call for someone to kill them, they just insinuate, same for Neo Nazi radio/internet celebrities.
     
  22. laasan

    laasan Member

    Apr 12, 2010
    and yet, you get arrested in the US when you choose to exercise your personal freedom to go topless. heck, the whole nation goes ape-shaped because of a nipple on prime-time TV. seems to me that Americans are not that much more principled with the whole personal freedom thing, just that the cultural priorities are different.
     
  23. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree . American have become hyprocrates. I blame liberalism and conservatives they both brainwashed the american public hat big government is good.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes that is why the champion of small government France has much liberal rules regarding nudity.

    I am all for nipples on TV!
     
  25. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if only it were offensive acts that people found offensive.
    regrettably, there isn't a one-to-one relationship between people being offended and offensive acts.
     

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