I cannot give you the minutes, I do not have the game on tape, and I'm not sure I could find it on YouTube. My apologies. I never said he doesn't score in big games. I was not saying he scored because of Holland's poor defence, although it was hardly a world-beating defence, in fact I thought he had expertly turned around in the second goal and shot with a fine-tuned accuracy few could've matched, and utilized the tight space Holland had given him phenomenally. As for Bayern and Klose, Klose has actually been pretty average at club level, and many people have commented on how he steps it up a notch for the NT, and I think few could argue that he doesn't turn into a different striker with Germany, much more prolific. I'm not trying to say that Klose is the answer, indeed, the main battle I see unrolling is Reus/Schürrle at false nine/"creative nine" (similar to Aguero or Tevez) against Gomez. I feel that Gomez deserves more chances with the NT and so does the false nine, whoever that seems to be. And also, I suppose the DFB Pokal is a poor model to use, if someone could find a heat map that proves that one wrong, I will relent and admit I'm wrong, but your evidence to suggest Gomez does track back is purely anecdotal just as mine is that he doesn't, but if we refer back to the heatmap, it suggests that he didn't really ever move very deep into his own half for corners or anything like that. Anyways, if someone could help me "see the light", so to speak, on Gomez, and help prove my apparently deeply erraneous (your words) view of Gomez, that would be much appreciated. I'm not trying to troll, simply to gain insight into a different point of view.
Mostly because I'm backtracking as I realize slowly but surely that some of my assumptions about Gomez may not have been correct. And I don't see a Gomez or striker thread over there, perhaps you could give me a link, please?
Surely Greece are no big team, but how can you back up that they are one of the worst? Especially defending as a team I consider Greece one of the best out there, few teams find space when playnig against us
Who in the tournament would Greece had gone up against that people would've said "Greece are favorites to win this one", just to play devil's advocate here?
Straw man. Matakos is correct that Greece's defense is usually stingy and disciplined. They are the prime example of a smaller side that grinds out 1-0 wins on the back of a strong team defense and an opportunistic counter. They are almost never favorites, but they are an unromantic side that play for pride rather than glory and are, therefore, hard to score against.
Exactly. And we are very hard to score on when we take the lead.I think any team bar the big ones(Spain,Italy,Germany) would have trouble creating chances if we're 1-0.
The fact that he's being considered a starter for Germany currently shows how incompetent Loew is as a coach. The only possible hope that Germany have in winning the WC in 14' is if they have a rebellion and play their own game despite Loew's tactics. Since there is a small chance of that happening, I give the same small chance of Germany winning the cup. Plenty? Defense was showing up in 06, the attack and Lahm in the semi-final in 08, and then surprisingly defense for the final against Spain and Schweini, in 2010 defense again showed up, and in 2012 it was generally more of a cluster ******** tactics by Loew just about throughout the whole tournament. Podolski other than one match has been useless in all those matches but Germany's midfield held their own and did well vs every team excluding Spain. The point is Klose's job is to be the efficient difference between winning or loosing and he lost that battle every time. Look at how average Spain was in 2010, it was basically Villa scoring and winning games for them. Ozil is just simply too much of a lightweight and gets easily bullied out of games against tough physical teams. First of all he's not Jekyll and Hide. He has done well for Germany the past 2 years and has been amazing for Bayern. So that comparison doesn't make any sense. And also Gomez DOES NOT fit the system perfectly, that's ridiculous. Gomez would fit Germany's system more if he played there as the established striker. Just because Gomez doesn't interplay with Bayern's wingers and midfielders as much as we would like, doesn't mean that it would be a bad thing if he did. Klose technically would be the "perfect fit" on paper for Bayern. Gomez's perfect system is something direct, quick counter attacking like it was at Stuttgart along with some crossing. Bayern players can't cross to save their lives bar Ribery, so his heading ability goes to waste and he can't use much of his counter attacking ability like his last club because Bayern would like to pass it 50 times rather than moving quickly to the other side of the pitch. If Gomez didn't have amazing movement and goal scoring, he would be at a different club at this time. That is why LvG shunned him until all players got injured and he had to play Gomez, which he started scoring and forcing himself into the line-up. Heynckes is basically using the exact same system but putting more emphasis on (defense) defensive off the ball movement. That's why I find it pretty ridiculous that Gomez fits Bayern's system perfectly. That's bullshit. The EPL clubs and some of the Serie A teams would fit Gomez much better. If there's 2 clubs that would rather have a different type striker to Gomez, it's Barcelona and Bayern. Personally I like that Gomez breaks off the "perfect style" since the whole team focuses on passing too much and I think the team would turn into Arsenal or Spain when they aren't on fire, which would be boring unless the team is in great form, he focuses on scoring more. And yes Dortmund have a more complete striker than Gomez in Lewandowski, but that doesn't mean that it's better. The interplay may be better but if he were to start scoring at the rate he does at times with Bayern, I too would wonder if they would see as they see it now (that Lewa is better in their system than Gomez). Because Gomez was in the same boat beforehand, Bayern fans saw players that fit the system better as better fits but Gomez's ability was simply overshadowing that completely. Germany play a lot more direct and to the point, 3-4 passes and try to get the goal (even though they've started to adopt Bayern's pass pass pass style more recently). This style fits Gomez more, he just wants the ball to him as quick as possible and see if he can score rather than pass it all around so all the players run back and defend. Also LOL at the attacks going much better against Italy after the changes. Well no shit, Italy was up 2-0 and was just defending by that time. They weren't going after Germany then since all they needed was to hold onto the result. But congratulations to Klose, he made Germany play beautiful football once again without any efficient purpose as he usually does in the latter stages of the tournament. Quick, someone give him a trophy for it. Klose's great "make the team play pretty but still loose" award during the latter stages of tournaments is almost as stupid as Wenger's "finishing top 4 better title than winning a cup award". As for another false 9.. Another terrible experiment. We saw with Spain how average they were with Fabregas and couldn't figure out how to score, they won another international title due to their midfield. Yet again people want to copy them and think that if Germanys play exactly against like Spain, they will win... Also what is this? Like Bazi said, stop finding weak selective arguments, anyone can make a point with this type of discussion. That group was seen as one of the toughest groups ever and you make it seem like it was no big deal. I wonder who was saying about the group being weak before the matches? Ohh yes, no one. Honestly I wonder if you're an alias, rarely ever does a new user show up and get into several discussions like this as you have right off the bat.
Anyone else hate mullers crosses??? I swear its the same cross at the same spot and time with the same speed and height.... So frustrating from him on that department I hope they really work with him on that in the coming seasons..
He does fit the system, though, and ultimately Bayern have seen his production go up, not down, since he left Stuttgart, and he left it as pretty much developed player. So Van Gaal shunned him for having amazing movement and goal-scoring? Van Gaal shunned him because he liked the type of player Ollic was versus the type of player Gomez was, and ultimately the thing about Van Gaal is he either likes you, in which case he plays you a ton, or he doesn’t, in which case you get freezed out a la Lucio. So you admit that Gomez has room for improvement in the link-up department in that you clearly state Lewandowski is more complete despite having less goals to show for it, which would mean, if Lewandowski was more complete, and had less goals, Gomez is extraordinary in the finishing department, making him a poacher, which is literally all I am saying. Gomez is a specialist; a poacher whose extraordinary finishing skills make up for his less-than-extraordinary complete all-around game, which, in a Germany side rank with players like Ozil, Muller, Reus, who benefit from having a more complete all-around game throughout the attacking area due to the style Germany plays, which is all about interchanging positions, confusing and pulling out of position the defence, and linking up with each other very well, like Spain but with a great deal more directness, less skill, and less emphasis on possession. Gomez would never be picked for Spain because it would be absurdly clear he does not fit because he does not have a well-developed link-up game like say, Villa or even perhaps Torres. Bayern does well with Gomez because they have a possession-based game, but, like you say, they need directness which Gomez provides, elsewise they become Arsenal, and Spain don’t care much for directness because they just dominate the game so bad they know they’ll eventually score. Germany, like you say, does not need the directness because they have that already, but they do need every player on the same wavelength in terms of link-up and movement, because that’s what their system is all about, a classic Germany goal is almost always because of creative off-the-ball movement, good dribbling, and link-up, none of which I’ve seen Gomez bring to the table for the NT; also worth noting is that Gomez’s assist count is abnormally low when compared to other forwards of the same scoring range, aiding in the case for the fact Gomez doesn’t bring amazing link-up play, although that may be changing what with the “new and improved Gomez” we’re seeing post-injury. Gomez is a different type of player because he is, as we’ve already established, a poacher, a specialist playing in a side not designed for him, like my Messi hypothetical with Chelski. You may be able to get away with it, but when you need that creative edge, that little bit of potential that may have been lacking with Gomez against clutch sides like Spain, Italy, Argentina and Brazil, you’ll need everyone to fit in the side. I think someone said earlier you either take Gomez or Ozil off the field, because the two don’t mesh; he/she’s right. I know who I’d rather have on that field, who I’d rather build the team and the system around, how about you? And also, I’d rather lose playing pretty football than lose playing crappy football, because we were going to lose that game the moment we conceded that first goal, because that plays straight into what Italy does; defends, and wait for an opening to counter; Germany is already a side that was crap at counter defense, but because we needed to open ourselves up even more to find the equalizer, we got wrecked. And also, were you watching the same Klose I was watching when you say Klose just makes Germany play good without purpose? I was watching Klose rip teams like Argentina a new one, playing purposeful and good counter-attacking football in 2010. I was watching Klose move right behind Ronaldo’s record in World Cup goals, I was watching Klose complete Germany, and Germany completing Klose. I don’t know what you’re saying when you say Klose makes Germany play pretty football without purpose; you want to see “classic German crap football that gets the job done”, take a look at what we did from 2000-2005; we were complete anonymous guys whose only major accomplishment was getting to the final in 2002. I’m pretty sure our guys could’ve gotten to the final too if we were playing 2002 South Korea in the semis. But you look at the 1990 squad or the 1974 squad; intelligent, attacking football was the German game back then, and that’s what won us those World Cups; rocks at the back like Beckenbauer-Mattthaus (Hummels for modern equivalent) and legends up front like Klinnsman, Voller, Muller. And as for false nine, 2012 Spain and average never belong in the same sentence after everything they’ve accomplished and made, first of all, second of all, if you’re talking lack of bite offensively, they don’t need bite, just total domination, and the goals will come from that. Spain has always had that problem even with Villa, it just naturally flows from the system unless you have an insane player like Messi who provides enough bite and directness for ten teams and scores 70-80 goals a season. We don’t have a David Villa we can put on the pitch, if we had a player like David Villa we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all. Plus Germany is ten times more direct and attacking than Spain, bite and directness would not be a problem, even with a false nine; what is a problem is familiarity with the system; Spain’s Barcelona midfield had familiarity with a false nine, we don’t. Which is why Loew should alternate between Gomez and false nine to see what looks better. I understand the false nine did not have a great cameo, but we should try it because ultimately, what happens if Gomez isn’t producing and Klose isn’t fit? We’re done and cooked unless we have alternatives, and this is our best one. Plus, I am not an alias, just an extraordinarily opinionated person who needs outlets for said opinions. J
Heard there was a Pokal match today. Or ESPN3 showing a debate between Gunter Netzer, Franz Beckenbauer, and Paul Breittner concerning who had the best hair in 1974????