"Build It Now!"

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by don gagliardi, Mar 15, 2010.

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  1. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And they need to do it before they end up with the situation such as they have in Dallas. If you string together enough seasons of under-performing teams that never get to the playoffs, eventually the fans will stop coming back and the allure of new stadium will have a blunted effect. San Jose fans won't be as tolerant of crap year in and year out as Toronto fans.
     
  2. NedZ

    NedZ Member+

    May 19, 2001
    Los Gatos
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I understand the F.O. has sold a good percentage of new additional season tickets this year. The problem is in retaining current STH; I assume primarily because of the quality of play for two years and secondarily due to the recession. What one hand gives (selling tickets), the other takes away (on the field).

    I would add that if you want to sell out Buck Shaw, you better be ready to accommodate the sellout crowd that shows up; a poor game day experience will make them not return. The lines at the bathrooms and portapotties were jammed, (and the bathroom dirty) the concession lines were jammed; the ticket taker in our line had a slow electronic ticket-recording device, and as I entered the guy next to her had to call for a supervisor because his stopped working altogether (which slowed up stadium entry). An SSV colleague who sits in front of me had bought extra tickets to accommodate 4 last minute guests and was told by his ticket rep that the tix would be at Will Call. Well, they weren't, so while he was in the stands his wife outside had to purchase 4 more tickets. They were 35 minutes late to the game. I saw a lot of people coming into the stands late.

    Makes me think that Buck Shaw can't really handle sellouts and that will drive customers away, yet we need to sell out to show that a new stadium is needed. A vicious circle.

    My party of 4 went to Rosie McCann's pregame. We arrived around 4 and left around 5. As far as I can tell, we were the only EQ fans there (though there were two EQ girls there who arrived after us I assume to coordinate the shuttle - Shakers or Street team, I don't know). We asked about the advertised discount for EQ fans (I had just been there Thursday night at the EQ "party" held there) and the waitress knew nothing about it. She said her manager was not there so she could not get info or authorization for special discounts. We discussed it and we told her what the Quakes insider said and also I told her that next to her cash register there was a pile of Quakes crawl pamphlets that mentioned discounts. (She was a very nice, young waitress, so none of the discussion was hostile). She said what she could do was give us the "Happy Hour" prices, and did so. I think that the discount of 50% on appetizers and 15% off on drinks on their Happy Hour is probably what the Quakes crawl discount was anyway, and we did that. After we finished the EQ girls came to us and asked if we got the $2 off on drinks? At that point we were leaving anyway.

    That experience gave me a bad feeling about the game before I even got there. It appeared to me that the attempted Rosie McCann/EQ partnership was a big fizzle. (At the Thursday night event, for some reason, I had the impression that the Rosie McCann people were not really committed or cared about the partnership - they seemed to me more into the basketball on TV). We drove to the game instead of taking the shuttle as I had originally thought we would. I hope I am wrong about this because I want the shuttle idea to work.

    I thought the supporters section was excellent the entire game. I couldn't always make out the chants, but while the rest of the fans were disheartened and quiet due to the pathetic performance onfield, these people kept the cheering going all game. I assume the reason was because both supporters group combined in the same area made a bigger impact, but whatever the reason, it was a real positive because in a 3 sided stadium it gave the impression that almost one-third of the fans were in supporters groups and active. In any case, my congratulations to them. (I sit in 103 at midfield line).

    Maybe a win would have made me forget the poor experience - I know I went to the game hopeful and optimistic about the result. But after the terrible muddle at the Portland game of long lines that alienated STH instead of rewarding them for being STH I am concerned for the game day experience now. I persuaded some people to buy Season Tickets this year and I am glad I didn't see them. Between the gameday experience and the onfield result I was embarrassed.

    I know there are loyal fans who have really worked hard to support the team, in spite of the teams performance the last couple of years, to come to City Council meetings, to encourage others to buy tickets, and even to buy more tickets than they themselves personally use and then use those extra seats to convert new people into fans. For them days like yesterday can be discouraging on many levels. As fans they have gone above and beyond to try to support the team and get a new stadium.

    Oh, well. I need to get back to trying to assemble a group of at least 10 to attend April 17.
     
  3. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    So if you sat with him, did you ask him.........

    A. when is he going to buy better players?

    B.start building the new park?

    C. Fire Frank & John?
     
  4. Brian Glennon

    Brian Glennon Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All this is unfortunate and unfortunately true. Thirty minutes into the match the aisles behind and next to me were full of people just getting to their seats and all of them were complaining about the same things you mentioned. The folks lucky enough to already be in their seats were none too happy either that their sight lines were being blocked by a steady stream of late comers.

    I know that each of the past seasons since the Quakes returned we have increased and upgraded our season tickets. But I can say in all honesty, if the play on the field and the game day experience doesn't improve soon, and improve drastically, I will be hard pressed to get agreement on remaining a STH. My seat mates first response after last nights fiasco was;

    "Can we get a refund on our tickets?"
     
  5. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I've always been resigned to the fact that Buck Shaw is a pig's ear and you can't make a silk purse out of it. It was sort meant to be the price worth paying while we waited to get the stadium built because it was better to have a team than not while we waited.
    But we were lead to believe it would be a two or three year wait and not a 4, 5 or 6 year wait. It's sort of sad that we adjust our behavior to Buckshaw, ie arrive quite early and stop somewhere else for dinner on the way to avoid concession lines and to be able to use a restroom elsewhere, for example. But most fans and casual fans won't hold much tolerance for putting up with Buck Shaw just because it's better than no team at all, particularly when the actual team is so playing so poorly.
     
  6. Brian Glennon

    Brian Glennon Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is the gist of the problem. Shovels should have been in the ground by mid 2009 at the latest, leaving an opening day ceremony for 2011. As it stands now we'll be lucky to get an opening day by 2013.

    And regardless of how loyal anyone is to this ownership group it bears repeating that Lew has already spent over 25 million on his to date fruitless pursuit of an A's baseball park in the south bay. That is almost half the cost of his proposed Soccer stadium. In my mind that is half of our SSS flushed down the drain right in front of our eyes.

    Say what you will about the return of our team, but unless there are drastic changes and soon, this organization will be lucky to keep half the fan base they currently enjoy.
     
  7. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The "gist" is already in the title of this thread.
     
  8. Brian Glennon

    Brian Glennon Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that Lew has the wrong people whispering in his ear.
     
  9. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, it happend here. After the 2000 season, we almost gave up our season tickets. I was so depressed with the management, poor play, and general lack of direction. If the Quakes hadn't won in 2001 and 2003, it would probably have been a ghost town. Even with the success, it was too hard to recover in time and the team was moved.

    I have been to Dallas stadium. It's a nice stadium. However, it's a pain in the ass to get there.

    This was my biggest fear with the team returning. It takes time to rebuild and you need the right components. Plus, you need momentum on and off the field. It's just too slow right know. Unless things change, there will be a constant churn of people coming and going...
     
  10. Tifosi FC

    Tifosi FC New Member

    Oct 25, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Out of curiosity, why is it that the state of California doesnt issue public funding for stadiums? Is it an actual legal requirement that they dont??

    I understand this is why Oakland A's and Raiders and San Francisco 49ers still play in stadiums that are past their used by date and its the reason why LA doesnt have an NFL team.

    Not saying its right or wrong they dont give tax payers money but would like to know why. thx
     
  11. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A perspective from a Bay Area ex-pat now living in Melbourne's western suburbs...

    Easy answer based on two words: public outcry.

    Or in other words, the NIMBY (not in my back yard) mentality.

    It happens to the point where the public demands that it be taken to a public vote, and by the time it gets there, it can't win. So private funding is used as often as possible, which offers the understanding as to why Mr. Wolff -- although he is planning the type of stadium that isn't serving all of the fans' wishes and desires and does not allow for the growth of the team and the sport in the U.S. -- is looking for corporate funding to help make it possible.

    It's a lot different than the new AAMI Park, the rectangular stadium here in Melbourne (in the Olympic Parks precinct that includes the MCG, Rod Laver and Hisense Arenas, and the old Olympic Park which is now home to the Victorian Institute of Sport) that will be opening its doors one month from today. That was done on time and on budget with a combination of state and federal government funding as well as private funding. It can be done on a cooperative level.
     
  12. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our state is flat broke, they can't afford to pay teachers. Publicly funded sports stadiums for billionaires is way down the list of ways to spend taxpayers money.
     
  13. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True the economy is an easy thing to point to today, but there has been a backlash against "wasting" money on stadiums in California, particularly LA and SF for a long time. The more liberal the region it seems the more resistance to spending money on stadiums. However there have been exceptions too, in SJ for the Arena in the late 80's and early 90's and down in San Diego for PETCO Park in the early 2000's. But for every one of those there seems to be a Coliseum expansion where the city ended up getting screwed. So it's not like you can't get a public venue built, it's just VERY VERY difficult.
     
  14. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...which is no different than any other stadium in D/FW.
     
  15. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Not sure if it has to do with being liberal or not. In general, conservatives are less inclined to want to spend public money, certainly fiscal conservatives anyway. :)

    So what does it have to do with? I'm not sure. There may be some areas of the country that are for some reason more "sports friendly", and I think that may cut across liberal / conservative lines. But more importantly, I think there's an aspect of a desire to attract attention / development to certain areas. So suburban areas with maybe a good deal of available land that would like to draw more people to the area, like Frisco or Bridgeview, maybe? I'm just guessing. I don't know the details of those stadium developments.
     
  16. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you were more on the trail of the truth with the "sports friendly" argument. It's the only thing that can explain the spate of urban stadiums/arenas we've seen built with public money nationwide in the last 20 years from Camden Yards to Twins new ballpark and everything else in between.
     
  17. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Well, in the general category of a desire to attract attention / business, I would add urban redevelopment to the mix along with "more suburban areas with lots of land". I think that would explain projects like Camden Yards (which I believe was financed mainly by a lottery?). Certainly it helps though when the franchise in question has a great tradition in the city.
     
  18. etastic

    etastic New Member

    Jul 14, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because all the local governments in Cali are broke, from municipal to state.

    Because of the constant threats of referendum.

    Because of some of the most corrupt city leaders you will ever see (see: Gonzalez, Ron).

    Because we can't even fund such things as local schools (see: late 70's property tax law changes).

    Because CA brings in 100 billion a year and spends 400 billion. Local gov't does the same on a smaller scale.

    Because we have many overlapping agencies who eat up the same pie.

    Because many people see sports as frivolous pursuits, and a few wound-up agitators can cause problems on election day.

    Because people are smart/educated enough in the Bay Area to realize that sports stadia don't generate urban/suburban development. Hello economics. Hello looking at empirical data. I hesitate to add that many right-leaning areas (cough TX) seem to waste billions on sports stadia b/c voters don't grasp these economic observations.

    And.....it is not a legal issue, it is a political one. At least other states are willing to build infrastructure if stadia are privately funded. Hell, we can't even get an agreement to build infrastructure. This is obvious, since counties such as Santa Clara won't even spend the necessary amount on fixing the freeways (i.e. US-101) to qualify for federal subsidies and grants which would pay for the majority.

    It is basically a dysfunctional system mortgaged to our grandchildren's future.
     
  19. Brian Glennon

    Brian Glennon Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So now that we know Houston's 22k, 80 million Dollar stadium, is on the fast track for a 2012 opening day debut, what do we know about San Jose's pursuit of a stadium?

    Will a 15k stadium be suitable for a home team with 3 DP's? Or even a visiting team bringing 3 DP's? How about 2 DP's? 1DP?

    Can San Jose ever even have any DP's with just a 15k stadium?

    Will the small size of San Jose's proposed stadium prevent us from ever obtaining a quality DP?

    Will San Jose have to to be satisfied by John Doyle's, "Andre Luiz is basically our DP." nonsense?

    Whose stadium will open first San Jose or Houston?

    Does anyone else think this train is on the wrong track?
     
  20. RafaLarios

    RafaLarios Member+

    Oct 2, 2009
    Medellín
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Houston's IMO
     
  21. nivla

    nivla Member+

    Jan 17, 2003
    Milpitas
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    "Buck Shaw is almost basically our SSS."
     
  22. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does anyone else think this is a straw man argument until our city and county decide they want to contribute a combined 20 million dollars to our stadium (which we all know they'll never do). It's all well and good that Houston is finally getting their stadium possibly approved (something they claimed would happen within months of them moving), but they've also got municipal governments footing a substantial portion of the bill (not to mention the fact that, if I'm not mistaken, the Dynamo also did not have to purchase the land their stadium sits on. Which was another expense our team did have to eat.

    So in total the Dynamo were gifted the equivalent of $27 million dollars, $27 million our team has to come up with privately. On top of that Houston has a history of putting alot of butts in the seats at Robertson. Their average attendance in that shitty stadium was 17,100 last year with several 30,000 fan games over the course of the last 4 years. We on the other hand have a history of difficulty filling our 10,300 seat stadium. When we can't fill an easy to fill stadium what message does that send about our ability to fill a stadium larger than the 15,000 +3,000 we have now.
     
  23. futbol monkey

    futbol monkey Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Didn't the city agree to re-negotiate the value of the land due to the value of land dropping and Wolff and Co. ended up saving something like $20M from the re-valuation? One could see that as a $20M gift from the city which Wolff could have easily have then added to our SSS budget but instead kept it at $60M. I see that as a clear sign that Wolff does not want to build a larger stadium than 15K(+3K). It could be because of your point that we have difficulty filling our 10K stadium versus Houston being able to draw 17K to their shitty stadium. But Houston is a very successful club on the pitch and I would bet that our shitty stadium is shittier than their shitty stadium. Not to mention that they've had their DP since last season. IMO that's three reasons why Houston is drawing a lot more fans than us.

    Now if Wolff were serious about building us a quality SSS he shouldn't worry about our current attendance. You want a much bigger attendance Mr. Wolff? The answer is easy: sign a Mexican star.

    Maybe you haven't heard Lew, but there's a few Latinos in the South Bay that like to watch a futbol game from time to time. :rolleyes:
     
  24. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Houston is stuck with a lazy, fat DP that doesn't perform you mean?
     
  25. futbol monkey

    futbol monkey Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I didn't say he was a good DP. I was trying to make the point that Houston has at least made the financial commitment to sign a DP. In contrast we've made the financial commitment to sign ALM. And even if he does suck, I'd like to know what the attendance change was for Houston after he was signed.
     

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