Bronx close to scoring $400M soccer stadium for NYCFC

so... skc isn't a very nice story for the league? and nycfc won't get more notice than anything in kansas?

 

IAlready, New York City FC faces its first major battle against the opposition group. Only this time, it's taking place in Harrison (NY), located at Westchester County, not in the Bronx, according to the Journal News. The football club wants to restructure by renovating and upgrading the facility at Manhattanville College for training grounds. But the opposition group fears heavy traffic, the construction near the church, and other possible negative implications.

Harrison braces for proposed soccer training grounds [April 22, 2014 @ 7:33PM EDT]
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/loc...ces-proposed-soccer-training-grounds/8025399/

The excerpt:

The New York City Football Club, which is jointly owned by the New York Yankees and the England-based Manchester City Football Club, wants to renovate a gymnasium, upgrade existing fields and add another pitch by replacing a tennis court at Manhattanville College in Purchase.

No new buildings or expansion of the overall athletic facilities beyond the current footprint are proposed, according to a letter sent from the college to Harrison officials. The team would not play regular season games there and would use the campus on a "temporary" basis.

The proposal, a target of community opposition for months, could be kicked forward when the town planning board meets Tuesday night to consider several items related to the project.

It continued with an eye opener:

Several local organizations have mounted resistance to the proposal. Michael Tokarz, the chairman of the Purchase Environmental Protective Agency, has accused the club of gross inconsistencies and deceitful presentation in its application to the planning board, urging members to vote against the project.

The group argues there is nothing temporary about the renovation, though the town says the club would have a five-year lease with an option to renew as it seeks to build a permanent stadium and practice grounds. Once that happens, NYCFC would donate the improved facilities to Manhattanville in perpetuity.

"I grew up with a notion and a belief ... that if you're going to do something major in a community as charming as Purchase, you do it in a way that benefits the residents of the community rather than impacting them negatively," said Betsy Schaper, a member of PEPA, before adding the team's use of the campus and construction of a nearby church would add to an already burdensome traffic situation.

The confrontation comes only one day after NYCFC and New York Yankees held its press conference at the Yankees Stadium. Potentially, it's a massive public relations nightmare.

 

From recent polls, it seems like a relatively large portion of Kansas follows SKC...

 

We actually have broadcast arrangements with 8 affiliates[1] going all the way up to South Dakota and includes Topeka and Wichita. Likewise, SKC draws well from Lawrence, though that's relatively close to KC.
[1] http://www.sportingkc.com/broadcast-information

Of course, comparing NYC to a midwestern city like KC is probably not a great idea in this regard.

To the original point, while NY2 is important to Garber and all, I don't think you could possibly say that his tenure was a failure if NY2 fails.

 

If you think NIMBYism is strong in NYC. You have no idea what it can be like up here. Purchase is down the road from me and all these towns and villages are similar in that they don't want any changes to their perfect, little suburban commuter communities. Traffic is somehow always a concern, even though many sit in traffic into NYC. That is what apparenty killed an excellent ice rink project in Rye Brook. It's quite frustrating.

 

hurrah for a relatively large portion of kansas.

i wasn't addressing that. i was addressing the 'nobody cares what happens in nyc' comment.
but as for garber, the outcome of this nycfc adventure will be more than a footnote to his career, especially because it's not just nycfc. this latest round of expansion might open him to a criticism that he went to the expansion well too often. and yeah, imo that would make a difference to his legacy.

 

Yea, I know, I was actually going back to the comment before yours.

I agree with both points to an extent, really. For the most part nobody much cares about what happens to the other teams in the league. Sure, we do, but we're sick. We should accept that. But that doesn't mean that what happens to the other teams in the league doesn't matter (to either the league or those people-who-don't-care's teams). Still, from a 'legacy' and perception angle I don't think that NY2 by itself should make-or-break Garber.

On the other hand, as you say, the success or failure of this entire expansion roll-out is much more key. Up till now expansion has gone pretty well. Chivas didn't work out but there was huge success in the NW and a lot of good decisions were made. But in a way some of that was relatively low hanging fruit in comparison - existing 2nd division clubs with any sort of history is a lot easier decision than to go into NYC again (esp. when Chivas ultimately failed). Also the fact that MLS had to pull out of the Southeast earlier makes Miami, Orlando, Atlanta all much more difficult than Seattle, Portland or even Toronto and Philly.

Personally, I don't like everything that has gone on with this round of expansion... but I really don't have to like it either. Time will tell whether it does or does not work out.

 

Since you replied to my post, you should work on your reading comprehension before getting too upset. You missed the point by a country mile. Or by about as far as you missed the shift key.

 

Tonight, according to the Journal News reporter, New York City FC won the battle over the Purchase Environmental Protective Association (PEPA) and the other opposition groups for the training grounds. A dramatic ending.

https://twitter.com/Gshilly/status/458801414685609984

https://twitter.com/Gshilly/status/458801996917911552

I was going to post the documents I found from the Purchase Environmental Protective Association (PEPA) web site until the late breaking news minutes ago.

Pro soccer club’s proposal draws concerns [April 3, 2014]
http://hometwn.com/pro-soccer-clubs-proposal-draws-concerns/

Manhattanville Statement in Support of Application [February 4, 2014]
http://www.pepany.com/pdfs/20140204-StatementSupportingApplication.PDF

Applicant's Letter to Planning Board [February 4, 2014]
http://www.pepany.com/pdfs/20140204-ChairLetter-MvilleSitePlan.PDF

Letters & Presentations: Legal [February 17, 2014]
http://www.pepany.com/pdfs/2014-02-17-Legal-Trinity-ChairmanLetter.pdf

Letters & Presentations: Planning [February 17, 2014]
http://www.pepany.com/pdfs/2014-02-17-Planning-TrinityEISScoping.pdf

Purchase Environmental Protective Association (PEPA) web site
http://www.pepany.com/news.htm

 

you had... a... point??!?

 

You need a new keyboard. The shift key on your current one apparently doesn't work.

 

Yes it does. See?

 

Too busy lately to comment on our new rivals and certainly come with my well known perspective/bias but in the omnibus spirit here's my take on developments so far...

On balance I think NYCFC has done a very good job in its initial rollout steps. The participatory logo generation/approval was nothing short of inspired though majority participation certainly wasn't from NYCFC fans. The hires Reyna/Kreis/Pernetti are solid though Reyna is frankly untested in the front office.

The Yankee minority partnership has proved to be critical in several areas. They backstop both Pernetti and even to some extent Reyna, they (initially) took the lead in the stadium hunt, they supply the temporary stadium site for at least one year, they strong-armed WFAN forcing them to broadcast games to get Yankees rights and will likely continue to strong-arm media on multiple platforms to do the right thing to ensure optimal baseball access (a bluff?), and they lend their prestige to the project with Mariano likely only the first crossover project. And importantly they're Mansour's "beard" hopefully protecting him from what could potentially be devastating attacks.

Man City is currently in a very curious position. Non participants in the very well done press conference announcing Yankee Stadium. They've made it very clear this will be a "Citeh" branch and have confirmed sky blue as the color. They've poured a ton of money into a great marketing launch and are apparently putting major money into the temporary Manhattanville College training site, one can only imagine what they're prepared to spend on the permanent site. Clearly they'll spend to the MLS max on players.

My take on why the major Manchester folks weren't here points to potential issues down the road. I'm guessing with the tenuous position of the flagship team right now it would've been seen as bad form to take time to do NYCFC. It's not clear who in the City structure is really the patron of this worldwide expansion project and where Mansour personally stands. No Premiership and/or Champions League titles over the next couple of years could conceivably result in patrons moving on...then what? Non Man City fans have better be rooting for the mothership to do well as we hope tons of cans of the beverage is sold.

The stadium hunt is also in a very curious position. Only a few weeks ago it seemed the site near Yankee Stadium was well on its way to being secured. I thought barring community opposition the team was in end game negotiations with de Blasio determined to cut the best possible deal and I still think this is the likeliest scenario.

Then the rumors of a temporary stadium built in Westchester followed by the Yonkers' mayor publicly lobbying for "a" team and the after the press conference bombshell dropped by Randy Levine (a long time mad bomber) suggesting a site outside the 5 boroughs could be considered. Coming into the press conference I was highly skeptical that we'd hear the words "three years" based on what we've been hearing here. I thought Yankee Stadium would be a one year experiment with reconsideration after that. Levine saying Yankee Stadium is the site until a new stadium is built (another off message bombshell) combined with the outside the city comment could put the Yankees firmly in the camp of pushing "their" new team to get out of Yankee Stadium as quickly as possible even if that means Westchester/Long Island/New Jersey.

Over a thousand season ticket deposits in 24 hours is a great number and we'll all be following their progress in that area.

So again solid start though with open questions on multiple foundational issues...everything still in play from smashing success to a disappointing new team...

 

You may disagree - but you are in the minority. Look at this article/poll, where almost 88% of the people called Manhattan the "city."

http://gothamist.com/2012/05/21/do_you_refer_to_manhattan_as_the_ci.php#.

In the article, someone from Brooklyn said they were "going to the city" when headed toward Manhattan. Many people from Brooklyn do say they're going to the city when traveling to Manhattan. I have family and friends in Brooklyn that call Manhattan "the city."

Most of the people that call areas like Brooklyn the "city", are people that do not have roots in New York (i.e. came to NYC from another far away area). Most Manhattanites call places like the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, etc - the "outer boroughs."

Also, since large swaths of Brooklyn are being taken over by these hipsters (20-30 somethings living off of Daddy's money from some area outside of NYC), they are redefining what is and isn't the city.

But speak to a true New Yorker (as cited in the article), and the "city" is Manhattan. BTW, a true New Yorker would be someone born and raised in NY, having lived many years in the area.

Why is this important? Because this whole 5 borough idea is a load of malarkey - a true sports fan doesn't care if you're in the "city" or "outside the city." People will travel to support a team.

Just look at MLS - Chicago Fire's stadium isn't in the City of Chicago, LA Galaxy isn't in the City of Los Angeles, and Philadelphia Union's stadium isn't located in the City of Philly.

This whole idea about "within the city" makes no damn sense. Try appealing to a true New Yorker and ask them, "will you support a team because it's in the five boroughs?" The answer will be "no" most of the time I bet.

Plus, there's always been rivalries between boroughs (and even neighborhoods within areas).

 

Isn't one of the biggest reasons they want a club in NYC is for the stadium to be near the NYC subway system? I don't think they'd be ecstatic building a stadium only next to a Metro-North or LIRR station, they wanted Flushing or YS because of the transit accessibility (subway, LIRR/Metro, and freeway all there).

 

Maybe that's their reasoning but it is an excuse - plain and simple. The NYC subway is a complex, complicated system. It's not like you just enter the subway and boom - you magically arrive at your destination anywhere in the city. You can be in one part of the city and to get to another part of the city on the subway can be long and full of transfers (that's switching trains for you folks unfamiliar).

Conversely, the LIRR and Metro North both have multiple stops in NYC proper. LIRR has many stops in Queens while Metro North has multiple Bronx stops. In fact, both LIRR and Metro North are 1 and 2 respectively (look it up if you like) for most used commuter railways in the entire U.S.

So, this idea that sports fans won't get on either is ridiculously, especially when so many people use those rails everyday.

Also, Red Bull Arena is VERY CONVENIENT for mass transit users. The NJ Path Train takes you a few hundred feet away from the stadium.

The reality is for a lot of people that live in the "city", it'll be more convenient to go to Red Bull games than NYCFC. The NJ Path Train is a quick ride to Harrison for those in lower Manhattan. So all the people that live in midtown/lower Manhattan, downtown Brooklyn, and other surrounding areas will have a quick time to get to RBA compared to the Bronx.

The Irony is that if you are in midtown Manhattan, you're probably better off getting on the Metro North to Yankee Stadium than on the NYC subway.

So, this whole "has to be near the subway" is another piece of malarkey. Hell, the Meadowlands didn't even have a train stop on the NJ Path until a few years ago - yet NYers turned up for NFL football.

 

Interestingly, one can use a NYC MetroCard on the PATH to RBA, as an extension of the subway, but one cannot do the same with Metro-North or LIRR.

 

Randy Levine don´t appear to worried..

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/dialogue-construction-between-25202/

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/president-permanent-outside-25139/

 

Sadly, perception and reality don't always see eye to eye.

 

It appears the article talking about "discussions" was misleading as I suspected. This is what Levine had to say in an article released today. This why you cannot take an article saying that "discussions" are taking place as a sign of anything at all.

Dialogue over stadium construction at infancy stage between De Blasio, NYC FC
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/dialogue-construction-between-25202/

 

It will certainly affect it at some level. A lot will depend on the context though. If we're running through the Garber career retrospective a decade from now with NYCFC winding up in temporary homes for a long time and/or moving out of town/market and MLS as a whole isn't much stronger than today (or isn't perceived to be) then everyone looks back at this as the high-water mark, the part where, after a run of success, he overplayed his hand and broke up the momentum.

If the same NYCFC scenario occurs, however, but the rest of the league keeps growing at the pace it has, the retrospective will only include a line or two about this adventure before moving on. "Well, he did have one bad idea, but X, Y, Z."

Yeah, by starting up without a deal, there's no doubt they put chips on the mayor's side of the table. But I do want to say, as far as the below:

You can bet they aren't, and that's one card the Yanks can play with regard to the Mayor, if he knows how to play it. The fans' ire can be made to reflect on both Levine and De Blasio . . . only Levine isn't running for anything, and he doesn't have to be that popular.

 

He's indeed the likely patron I was referencing...he tried to do similar things when he was with Barcelona...I'm wondering what happens if Man City cuts ties with him...does the new guy decide the team's stretched too thin with the satellite franchises...too much money involved to just pull out...but maybe the support from Manchester changes...and maybe Kreis is told to dump everything he picked up about the no longer in vogue City Way...though in fairness some of the same dynamics could be in play with any team whose ownership goes through reversals and/or major internal restructuring...

 

He is also the guy that wanted to start an MLS team owned by Barcelona around 2006 when he was CEO for them.. Miami and New York was mentioned at the time so yeah, it looks like Ferrans baby this.
As for City they are having their seasonal review right now so the top brass is fairly busy.

BUT!.. It´s also been mentioned that he´s the City CEO just because he is in favour of being global