The thing I see and others with me and are amazed about is that he no where shows adaptation problems. Van Marwijk was also impressed with how easily he adapts and thought that is a sign of quality. Now if Strootman was still quite fragile and he only backed on technique then yeah maybe I would say let him stay in the Netherlands for 1.5 or even 2.5 years. However he is very strong and also pretty big. No one will push him over. The arguments to let him ripe do not come off very strong to me with this specific person. If you go to a top club you never have guarantees. Look at Afellay. On the bench while only going after being the best in the competition. Strootman is by the way at this moment the best and most consistent in the competition. Elm is a free kick wonder, but if we look at field play, Strootman better. No doubt about that. What sense does it then make to stay another year, if you are already the best in a competition?
The PSV boys did fine (Lens assisted, Strootman scored and splitting pass), Maher not so much. I think people are focusing to much on Maher and not enough on Clasie. had not a very good game against RKC and Feyenoord will probably get overryn by this PSV, but the operational speed of Clasie is something that will increase in power at the higher level you play and with people that are sort alike. It's somewhat disguised in this Feyenoord. Clasie is by the way somebody who has to stay a few more years in the Eredivisie. To many mediocre displays still.
You cant really compare the Bommel situation. MVB was the captain & they Van Gaal who preferred an very attacking approach. They spend 17 Million on Gustavo & Tymo will get an extension. And they have a couple of good players in the reserve team. Besides Germany have got a fantastic array of German talents & bayern are going all-out to get the best of the "german" talents. Cant really blame them. The chances of Strootman coming are less than 0. Sorry the Tymo spot will be filled by another destroyer in the future. Fair enough. Dortmund played very well in CHL & lost out only due to inexperience. They are still leading the Bundesliga after a remarkable comeback & will come back in CHL much stronger. They have on the best coaches in the world. Klopp is a magician & Dortmund manage to find out gems for virtually nothing. If they manage to hold on to Hummels-Goetze who are hands down Germany's 2 best potential youngsters in years then they will do great. I am telling you they will regularly challenging for CHL in that case. Sneijder = 0 chance. He is 1 year older,slightly injury prone as well.2 years is enough for the rumours mills. MU will probably go all out for someone younger with massive potential like Goetze. Mereiles was fantastic last season. So I would not say he is better than him. Strootman has a brighter future for sure. But Chelsea have Romeu & Mceachran,2 great talents who barely get playing time. Ramires is very young & decent. Add Lampard & Chelsea will probably add a WC player like Modric soon. NO VACANCY. Mceachran was said to be better than Wilshire. Dunno how true. 3 young players who need playing time are good enough.[/QUOTE] But Milan wont dump Gatusso or Ambrsoni & can move Seedorf back. Kevin Boateng is a SURE SHOT starter & they will buy a CM like Montolivo for free & they have another good young talent in El Sharaaway. Strootman is unlikely. Milan will probably spend in another striker,have 5-6 good strikers. Napoli have almost finalised a contract extension with Hamsik. They have a smart president. Gokhan Inler signed this term & is unlikely to leave. The other some Gargano something is doing allright & is equally unlikely to leave. Besides Napoli are unlikely to spend 15 odd Millions for a position they have covered. Juve play 4-2-4 odd. They have Pirlo & he will definitely stay on for 1-2 years more. Vidal is a great player & Marchisio dude is good too. No Vacancy. Inter,Liverpool,Napoli, If I had to choose 3 clubs likely. De Jong did bring an air of stability to the defense. You get a dont mess me,no nonsense bastard air with him. Strootman was below par. I am sorry to say. I would probably play Strootman-De Jong because Bommel is a waste. Ideally De Jong wont play but considering the defense we need him. Robben,he's probably my favourite player so I dont know what to say. You that no LB will probably go on overlaps with him on the RW giving VDW more security. Robben vs Lahm + Podolski will be very interesting. Podolski rarely defends. Lahm is a fantastic FB but he is Very aggressive,ramping up & down the flanks,good passer,crosses,decent speed & shooter. With Robben on RW it will probably stop all his overlaps. Also Hummels or whoever plays LCB will have to cover Lahm leaving massive spaces around a very slow Mertersacker which a Van persie or a Huntelaar can utilize.
I don't believe friendlies are an adequate judge of how a player will perform. They tend to be one off matches and the opponent may or may not choose to put forth their best 11. I didn't see the Brazil match but did see the German match and it was clear to me that he's still progressing. I do think at this point in time he should start ahead of van Bommel but it's probably not going to happen. As for Fer, I have not rated him highly at all.
Fair enough.But he can grow furthur if PSV win the league & can hold onto their group. If the draw is favourable,PSV have a good chance of making Top 8. Come one evn Ajax are probably going to Make Top 16. He will get quality oppositon in CHL,Euros & Ajax will also throw everything at PSV. Going abroad will probably be better. But where???? To a mid-table club or a Top?? Personally sometimes it is better for players to find their feet in a mid-level club in a higher league but Stootman is feel is beyond that point & a much better talent for that. He can go to a Top Club or a Club like Spurs/Pool/Juve/Dortmund & I'd be happy. I dont want him to go to Valencia which sells players to make for the 400 odd million losses & will play for No. 3rd in La Liga. Arsenal/City/United/Chelsea/Milan/Napoli dont have much vacancies. Inter do but they are more like a shinking ship. At this point I am not so sure. I dont want another Afellay situation. With Sanchez coming in & Pedro in the bench Afellay will not even get time as a sub & he could easily be a starter in Arsenal or Juventus anyway. I want Stootman as a sure shot starting 11 player. Afellay is 25,Strootman is 21 odd & has still Huge scope for development. I want to see playing which is why I would rather see him in a PSV resurgence in European Football(probably impossible) than rot in the bench in some big club. I am sorry Strootman is too good for that.
the easiest possible group for us is probably England, Greece, and Ireland. There are no real "bad" teams in the Euro, but I'd say we we could easily dominate these teams. England is HIGHLY overrated, defensive, and without Rooney for the group stage. Also none of these teams have the mentality/caliber to pressure our weak defense (probably the only way to beat us when we're healthy)
I think Strootman proves at PSV he can play along an offensive player like Wijnaldum and take care of defensive duties quite well (he is compared to Cocu even at this moment). Bayern lost from Mainz when Gustavo and Alaba played together in DM just recently and Gustavo was even subbed off. Looks like Bayern have a problem when Schweini is injured. I wonder what player would take over excellent from an injured Schweini and could play along side him if he is fit .... (demonstrating it at PSV next to Wijnaldum)? However I read your beyern will go german argument and I think it is right. However there will surely be limits to their German love in terms of price. the question remains with Dortmund what if the world is coming after their players. Gotze is named in many transfer rumors. Bender, Hummels. How long can they keep a hold on them? I understand that with them they are a side to respect, but without them it becomes a bit of a different story. I saw they only managed to become 4 times champions in the last 30 years. That's nice, but nothing compared to Bayern. That mentality to always go for the championship is what I would like Dutch players to get used too as I believe it will carry on into playing for the Dutch NT. On that condition I might actually quite like him to go there. I saw the Arsenal-Dortmund game and the off ball movement of Dortmund was quite good. I am sure he will learn a lot from Klopp. If they can hold on the talents, yes. I have yet to see a player saying no against a paycheck that is two or three times as high as he gets currently TBH. I can see the argument, but my remark is a mixture between the speculations I read, past interest and remark from Sneijder himself they were close in the summer and the lack of creativity they have in midfield according to posters I have read upon and general obesrvations of my own. If you want creativity, Sneijder is interesting. You say they will go for Goetze and I can understand that point, but one up you say Dortmund didn't made it in CL due to inexperience. United has managed to reach 5 CL half finals in the past 5 years. They need a player that has the experience to get them past the big guns. Sneijder has demonstrated he can take out big guns in CL (Chelsea) but also WC (Brazil). A player that starts running the second he is landed and be good against all kinds of opposition. However there has been a discussion on the United forum as big as I have seen one about this very subject with pro's and cons to Sneijder at United so I leave it for what it is, speculation. Neither you or I know what will happen. Strootman is quite a bit creative, but not like Sneijder. Sneijder is on another level in that department. Exactly, Chelsea wanted Modric, but Spurs does not sell him. So the fact they want to buy another midfielder shows they want an extra boy there. Modric is another kind of player than Strootman, other style. Modric walks more with the ball, dribbles more. Brings something different to the table, but in no way I have the feeling Strootman could not bring as much to midfield than Modric. Strootman is commanding. Modric barely scores. Strootman is stronger. Has an excellent pass. I would not know why he could not fill those shoes. Strootman is better when he gets in front of the goal than Modric. Well, Strootman will always have to battle for his spot at top teams. If it turns out he can't handle that we have to look at a nice club in the shadow for him. If a top club shows they want to buy, then it might be interesting for Strootman. I consider Strootman better than Mikel, yet he gets a lot of playing time at Chelsea. They also need creativity on midfield. Strootman has a creative pass. Then why would Modric want to go there or why would Chelsea want to buy him? The fact Modric is already proven in EPL does not say everything. How did the Torres transfer worked out for them? Is Visser not still giving advice to Abramovic. Sure he told him about this Dutch kid. Yes they can move back Seedorf who is how old? Emanuelson told last year they were planning to inject youth into the team. Seedorf is rumored to go to Brazil (his wife is Brazilian), van Bommel to PSV, Gattuso has become meh. Emanuelson is not cracking it. That's 4 guys on midfield. If van Bommel would go, I think Strootman is capable to take over his place. I see more an attacking role for him, more AM. It will depend on the question if they will inject youth or not and carry on. At some point they they will have to off load some of these guys. berlusconi is not PM anymore and will focus more on his club now again. Maybe he will go on a spree. Yes, but everything falls and stands with that prediction for Pirlo. Next year you can add CL too. Take that also into account. Juve will have to play chess on an extra board. We have also seen it with van Bommel. Not really wanted anymore by Bayern, goes to Milan. Plays good for half a year (revenge half year) became champ and is now pretty average and rumored to go to PSV next year. Pirlo was actually kept out of the team by that van Bommel and has now his revenge year. When he had his revenge (Juve Champs) he can maybe go to that lesser self plus his age is making it not easier. We will see. ? The Germans also started to calm down after their 3-0 and Netherlands came up a bit naturally after being down 3-0. Does not have to do with Nigel just with general mindset. For me it is testament to Strootman that it were the two regular DM's that made fatal mistakes not him. the moment Nigel came up he was butchered for one mistake. that tells me Strootman at least kept his garden clean, while he might not have done much outside that garden. Agree. Robben is not only an offensive but also and defensive weapon. A lighting rot that gives his fellow players more space and room as he attracts attention and personnel from the opposite team. He als strikes them with fear, making them less daring and even mobile. I don't think Huntelaar has benefited enough from Mertesacker in the Germany game. In my book he was one of the worst players. With Robben in the team we will play maybe more on their half, making Huntelaar play more in the 16 and so more useful. Tough choice. If BvM starts to build more running players around RVP then his productivity would surge and the I would go for him instead of Huntelaar.
I just think that a player should move from Eredivisie when he has closed that year as the best. At this moment with Elm he is, but we have to see of course the second part. Elm though is greatly depended on his grades from free kicks that go in. The field play of Strootman is much more commanding and he has more presence IMO. Strootman is also dominant in EL. AZ often perform weak when they play abroad yet Strootman is strong everywhere. in both competition and is international and has won the competition battle with de Jong for now. Dude plays chess on multiple boards and keeps his cool. That all when only 21 years old. mark of a great prospect. Oke, well he is seen as kind of a big talent, but I am afraid twente have bought the wrong DM. Clasie has a much higher operational speed, than physical Fer.
Strootman is also doing good in EL. He shows he can play chess on mutiple boards. Does he has to stay for 6 CL games and maybe what like 2 or 4 knock out matches. That's 10 in total. This year is already very competetive. Look at Hollands gaining the small mountain of Uefa points in Europe: Netherlands on 8600 points only just behind Spain and England! That proves for me that at this moment it is strong, yet Strootman is the best player and bloody consistent as he was important in EL yesterday again. Strootman can be thrown in front of the lions. No Barca of course, no Madrid, but under those teams I start to look at a nice spot for him. I think Liverpool is already a tad to low for him. If de Jong and van Bommel can play at City and Milan, so can he. Agree Inter is a sinking ship and sometimes you just have to be bold. Every top club will have spots covered. however some top clubs will have a lower spot on the table and will start buying. Then he will have to get in and win the battle. VDV also had to battle at Spurs. van Bommel won from Pirlo. What do you say about that? Everywhere there will be top guys, but Kevin is just better. Barca is special and you know it. He also didn't become less from going there. In fact I was the only one here that was reluctant on his progress when the whole press was saying how great he had become from 4 months of training with the Gods of Barca. He gradually became better and I think his best game in Orange was against Brazil on 10 in the South America campaign. If a player has become the best in the league (and he is that up until now) there is no point keeping him here. that is in fact damaging. Everybody follows his own development. If Strootman is quick to become the best here then that is what it is. With Elia to Juve we all were already skeptical but Strootman will leave PSV as the best. Elia had problems already at HSV and wanted to leave them behind with moving. The difficulty with life is that you will always take your problems with you if they involve your own quality or behavior. As long as Strootman stays away from Barca/Madrid I would not know why he wouldn't make it. There is a page here on Bigsoccer that has the Dutch down as having the most top 100 players on the DM spot. More than Brazil, Italy or Germany. We just deliver top quality in that department, always have always will and Strootman is just another piece of work. Cheers
You know what? The Dutch public agrees with you. England ----------------- Greece ------------------ Ireland Although the English just take it from the Germans. looks like a big group of Dutchies want some revenge
1 Bad Game does not really change it. They were suffering due to Bastian not being there. Alaba is not really a CM. Gustavo was amazing last year but has lost his form this year. They did pay 17 Million for a DM & wont give up on him. Gustavo had to benched for giving Tymo times & had to shuffled along LB,CB & even RB. I do think it's a batter of time. It's just a matter of time too when Emre Can is promoted(Reserve Team). Tymo is likely to get an extension. If Mourinho gets bored with khediera or if bender is available(very unlikely now that Dortmund are bayern's opponent) Bayern will go them. Also Schweni is rarely injured. There is no vacancy. Unless Strootman bosses the mid-field in a 2-0 or something win against Germany forcing bayern to take notice. The Germany-Holland game was hardly a good audition. Dortmund actually won the CHL in 97/98 odd but sunk with a massive debt. Now Klopp has really created a gem of a team with his vision & scouting. Dortmund have made an incredible comeback after being very far behind & are now TOP of the table. If Dortmund win the league or even come close 2nd most of the players will stay. Dortmund are the only team to beat Bayern twice in consecutive years(this & last) in Allianz Arena. I did not see the 1-2 loss but I saw the 1st leg 1-1. Apart from the 1st 20-30 minutes where they struggled playing CHL after many years,they were really good. COnfidenly out-played Arsenal in the 2nd half & only suffered due to bigtime inexperience. Dortmund is ideal for Strootman. 4-2-3-1 formation with a destroyed Bender next to him. Goetze their RW is actually more like a No. 10 & drifts inside. Strootman can link up great with kagawa & Goetze. They play good football too & Bundesliga has plenty of successful germans & Dortmund have a multi-ethnic team. Not really. Hummels IMO is one of the most talented young CB's in the last 8-10 years & he refused a Bayern offer. He was a Bayern Under 16,17,19,reserve & 1st team player but Bayern dumped him & Lucio. Hummels then went to become great at Dortmund. Bayern offered him a significantly higher salary. He is sore & refused. Dortmund got 9 Million profit last year without playing CHL. With more publicity,advertisement & CHL money pouring in who knows??? It'll be tough I guess. You are definitely right on the money bit. Well Sneijder was literally handed on a silver plate & probably a 35 million offer would have been enough for him. The question is not wether United need him or not. The question is what SAF thinks. They already have experienced players in Rooney,Vidic,Ferdinand,Evra & a few others. They are going for younger players(like under 22/23 kind). SAF sees high potential in Cleverly & will probably add a Goetze/Eriksen kind of player of maybe who will play Well for 10-12 years atleast. I am sorry. Chelsea dont really go buy your logic. The bottomline is things change. Merieles came this year as did young blokes like Romeu. Mceachran & Ramires are young. Lampard is a Chelsea legend. Drogba injured. Mikel is playing but he has been for years. That is 7 spots. I dont see anyone leaving other than the last 2 at best. Strootman coming is unlikely,not impossible. Chelsea do need creativity. That is why I believe they will actually go for a No. 10 which will allow them to play different formations. I am sorry. I dont see Strootman going there. My 2 cents. Yes he has to battle anywhere for a spot. But success of failure does not depend on him. I dont want another Elia fate. Look dont come up with this Elia was unsettled logic. Elia got 45 minutes god damn minutes. 45 minutes is a joke. It's a complete joke. I would even given Maradona's carcass more than 45 minutes in a match to see if he can still play. You cant judge anything in 45 minutes. Unlikely move,not impossible. They are almost Sure to get Montolivo who is a DLP or a CM. KPB is more like a Box to Box Mid-fielder who scores,not an AM. Then you have Emanualsen. Probably add 1 of Ambrosini,Gattuso. Seedorf is acting like has 2-3 years more. So 1 or 2 of them will definitely stay. If they will add a player I think it will an outright DM & a CAM not a CM. Way too much Generalization. Pirlo is a DLP does not run match. Maybe he can hang on 1 or 2 more years. Vidal is an amazing guy & will hold the other spot till death. Then the Marchiso or something dude is there. Juve will probably invest in a Top Quality Winger,CB & a LB. About the Napoli thing,even though I dont think there are less vacancies,Strootman has more chances of displaying Inler or the other dude there. Not sure if they will spend big on him though. I dont want him. Basically I hate his scum-bag attitude. I am sorry, Dude never sings the National Anthem,is always bitching that VDV should be playing instead of Kuyt. That is a downright insulting statement for a player like kuyt who is running & doing everything for the team. I dont rate Kuyt high & he should not be in the team. But before the WC RVP has no business saying Kuyt should not be in the team. He is the least talented player I ever saw. Neither good for Kuyt's self confidence or for the team morale. Then he wants so much of the ball & the team to build around him. Comes down to get the ball. You can see Sneijder wants to be the mid-field & prefers a No. 9 who stays in the penatly box zone to get his long balls. You can see them bitching about who wants more of the ball. Then he is very fragile physically & a very average header. Him & rafa's mini-group with the team I dont like. It's time to make a choice Rafa-RVP or Sneijder-Hunter & I choose the latter.
Worst case scenario? Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, France. Notwithstanding my desire to lay an absolute beating on Germany. I'd like to avoid Portugal and France at all costs.
Where would you guys rate this group in comparison to your EC 2000 group with the Czech Rep. , France & Denmark?
Groep A: 01. Polen 02. Griekenland 03. Rusland 04. Tsjechië Group B 01. Nederland 02. Denemarken 03. Duitsland 04. Portugal Groep C: 01. Spanje 02. Italië 03. Ierland 04. Kroatië Groep D: 01. Oekraïne 02. Zweden 03. Frankrijk 04. Engeland Donderdag 21 juni 2012 (1A-2B) Kwartfinale 1 (20.45 uur), Warschau Vrijdag 22 juni 2012 (1B-2A) Kwartfinale 2 (20.45 uur), Gdansk Zaterdag 23 juni 2012 (1C-2D) Kwartfinale 3 (20.45 uur), Donetsk Zondag 24 juni 2012 (1D-2C) Kwartfinale 4 (20.45 uur), Kiev Woensdag 27 juni 2012 (Winnaar 1-Winnaar 3) Halve finale (20.45 uur), Donetsk Donderdag 28 juni 2012 (Winnaar 2-Winnaar 4) Halve finale (20.45 uur), Warschau Zondag 1 juli 2012 Finale (20.45 uur), Kiev
Whoever comes out of Group B plays whoever comes out of Group A, which is Poland, Greece, Russia, Czech Republic.
So, our road to the cup will be (ending 2nd in group) Denmark, Germany, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Germany Lot's of teams we have a history with.