Brazil x North Korea Post Match Thread.

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the DPRK's other matches. It will be interesting to see if they can repeat their impressive defensive display.

What a paradoxical team. I still don't get the exlcusion of Ronaldinho. You cannot tell me he doesn't fit the system when you have Robinho running around doing 1000 stepovers.

Solid stuff from Brazil though.

I don't think his exclusion (which, for the record, I think was unjustified) was based purely on footballing reasons.

It has more to do with man-management. Ronaldinho has a reputation for partying and irreverence. Whether this is deserved is another question, which I won't touch. He also had a run of bad form. Dunga is a disciplinarian; Ronaldinho's presence, the reasoning goes, might undermine his authority and coaching philosophy (consistency). Among the players, his authority is based largely on loyalty. It seems that he rewarded players that did well under in his previous call-ups, and punished Ronaldinho for his request to be excluded from the Copa America in 07.

There might be more to it than that, but that's the reason in a nutshell.

North Korea did what South Korea did in 2002, basically shut down their league and have their national team become a club side. As everybody watching the match noticed this makes for a very organised team that knows where each player is and where they'll make their runs to. Some people think that they're a bunker team, but those who've watched for a while know that while they defend in numbers they're not afraid of sending people to join the attack so the label is not actually correct .. frankly if we're going to label teams as 'bunker' based on them defending in numbers against BRAZIL, then pretty much everybody is a bunker team.

Let's not forget that the NK goal, which was pretty damned good whichever way you look at it .. they've been doing similar moves for a while now actually so it's not particularly surprising to anyone who's watched them for a while. Anybody who thinks that NK is a one-dimensional team that relies on the counter would be mistaken .. they prefer to play that way, but can definitely pass it amongst themselves. In the end it took some world-class goals from Brazil to win the game (that goal by Maicon will be replayed for the rest of this tournament if not longer) and the game performance was worthy of being a quarter or semi-final match in terms of tension and execution.

IMHO both teams will acquit themselves well in this tournament.

As a North Korean (my grand parents lived in Pyongyang before North and South got divided), I must say Team Brasil was a pure class. Not because of their football but their attitude toward N.Korean players and the game. They gave respect to the north korean players when they have every reason not to. I can only imagine how snobbish Argentinians or some Europeans would've acted on the field today against the koreans.

Brazilians are always pure class. Congratulations on your match. Your North Koreans did North Korea proud. I predicted 2-0 right before the match and it was close to that.

A loss is still a loss. 0 Points.

Actually, given the relative difference in ranking, and that they scored, the DPRK may gain some points. We won't lose any (we would have had we tied or lost), but we won't gain many from this match.

Points are a limited good: if you earn some, someone else loses some.

This result may give a few points to North Korea and take a few from Brazil. Brazil has enough to spare.

Even though my sympathies are more with Argentina, I must admit the Brazilian team has always been class.

When the world likes you, there usually is a good reason for it.

Yes, it was awful. But who could have predicted that we would see winter-like weather in June?

Well, seeing as it's the southern hemisphere, and it's ALWAYS winter in the southern hemisphere when it's summer in the northern hemisphere, pretty much anyone in the world with a knowledge of 5th grade science could have predicted winter like weather in June....

If Italy or France had played with half the fire that the North Koreans displayed, they would have crushed their opponents....

An analysis of the game. I disagree with it, in part:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/16/maicon-goal-brazil-north-korea/

The point they make is that Brazil had to score on the right because Robinho was obstructing Bastos and the Koreans had two spare men in the middle, so their defense of five had one stuck to Fabiano, one to Ramires(?, he wasn't even in at the time of the first goal), and one to Robinho on the left (of Brazil). Their 3 DMs were one with Kaka, one free to cover and one should have stuck to Maicon but didn't (Nam-Chol, whom they blame for the goal).

My position is that it was not the fault of Nam-Chol, the LDM, but the fault of Yun-Nam, who later scored.

This is my reply:

"Initially, Brazil started as shown. However, by the second half, they had changed formation a bit: Robinho was given a free role (reason why he’s on the right on the stills) and Kakà had moved forward (reason why there are two forward, Fabiano and Robinho, centrally, with Kakà behind).

That had left the space also open for Bastos. In the last picture you can see how he is alone on the left.

Also, at that point Ramires was not yet on the field. The guy playing in the space behind Fabiano was Elano.

The big difference in the attack was, in fact, Elano. Unlike Melo, who was playing slightly to the left, Elano was making constant threatening runs through the centre-right. Remember that Ramires didn’t come in until 30 minutes after the goal, for Melo. So up to that point the attack on the left had only one guy: Bastos, since Robinho was moved to a free role closer to the center.

The two extra central defenders were no longer free, but constantly facing Robinho and Kakà. Bastos on the left was faced by Jong-Hyok, who did a superb job. Chol-Jin followed Robinho, Kwang-Chon stuck to Fabiano, and Jun-Il marked Kakà. Yun-Nam was the guy marking Elano, who had become a clear risk.

Nam-Chol, their left mid, was the guy providing balls to the forwards. So he could not pay attention to Maicon at all times. When Maicon ran, as you noted, no one was marking him. Nam-Chol could have ran back to mark him, indeed, but it was supposed to work otherwise: at that point he was supposed to stay with Elano and leave Yun-Nam chase Maicon. Which he tried to do far too late.

In the end, it was Yun-Nam’s mistake for breaking order. Nam-Chol stayed as spectator in the centre, In-Guk had come to mark Elano.

In part, I think the rabid attack by Yun-Nam for the Korean goal was out of frustration, knowing he had compromised his team by failing to react. What Nam-Chol is pointing is simple: 'remember the plan! I stick to Elano now, you run to cover Maicon! Hurry!'

So no, he was not scared of leaving the centre: he was not supposed to. What did the Koreans in at that point was the mental rigidity of their left back, Yun-Nam."

Yun-Nam was also a bit responsible for Elano's goal. He was on the wrong side to stop the assist.

All things said, good thing that he managed to score.

Can you point me to a general one? Got something to say, can't find the right thread (and you are right, it doesn't belong in here).

It's a very good article that actually. But I am inclinced to agree with you as well. What really struck me was once again despite everything great that North Korea did the lack of value they placed on Maicon.

http://vuvuzelaview.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/cult-heroes-born-from-a-cult-nation/ - A not quite as in depth look at the game, more akin to how I try and watch it, but still is quite interesting that so many people ruled out North Korea as write offs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/mar/25/the-question-full-backs-football - Interesting read with regards to the fullbacks. Once again, Wilson making some excellent points and actually as a result there seems to be a couple of other articles about fullbacks which when I find them I'll put on here. Think there is one on that ZM website actually.

But the real thing was watching a game that had the real world cup spirit! Finally!

Made me smile.

What do you mean they may gain some points? In the FIFA ranking they won't. In Elo they lost two points, with Brazil obviously gaining two.

In which ranking system?

That's what I'll do, thanks.

In Elo, if you win points, the other team loses the same amount of points. And is possible to lose points after a tight victory over a supposedly much weaker rival. But in this case Brazil won 2 pts. and KPDR lost 2 in consequence:

http://www.eloratings.net/

In FIFA, a team can win points only after a defeat in a penalty shoot-out.

Brazil = 1. KPDR = 105. World Cup finals mult. = 4.0.

Win pts. = 3. Defeat pts. = 0.

Opposition strength mult. = 2 (since Brazil is #1)
and for Brazil = (200 - 105)/100 = 0.95

Regional strength mult. = (0.85 + 0.99)/2 = 0.92

So, for Brazil:

points = 100 ( 3 x 4.0 x 0.95 x 0.92 ) = 1048.8 = 1049 pts.

For KPDR:

points = 100 ( 0 x 4.0 x 2.0 x 0.92 ) = 0 pts.

Goals don't enter the equation. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Rankings#Current_calculation_method

he was joking wasnt he?

I HOPE he was joking. Very sad if he wasnt.


anyway, as for the cold weather, Brazil already beat Russia in Moscow, playing with a temperature of -15º (even lower windchill).


the temperatures in South Africa dont scare Brazil because:

1 - most brazilian players play in Europe

2 - southern Brazil is as cold as S.Africa... and at the same time of the year.

3 - thus, Brazil trained in Curitiba, the coldest brazilian state capital, for one and a half week before going to S.Africa.

4 - we already won the Confederations Cup in S.Africa last year, at the same time of the year.



ps: the World Cup in 2014 will be very interesting... the temperature differences between the north and south of Brazil in June are much bigger than in any other single country in the world elsewhere in June/July.

it will be winter in southern Brazil... but in northern Brazil, it will just be "dry season", with hardly any temperature difference to summer.

Both Portugal and IC are shocking

No joke.

It REALLY is winter. I swear. Cold weather in winter should suprise nobody.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/glossary/seasons.shtml

dude, I was talking about the guy who wondered about being cold in june.

I DO LIVE in the southern hemisphere. In southern Brazil. Its cold here. There is prediction of snow for this weekend.