Sorry, didn't quite understand, this would be the second goal for Ronaldo in 2002 final? Rivaldo not touched the ball but was crucial to the goal.
assists valid: - Player1 make a cross and Player2 head the ball into the net - Player1 make a pass and Player2 kicks the ball in the net (or Player2 driblles defenders and kick) = assist = decisive pass Well, not always the last pass is valid as assist, of course. There is no assist in the famous Maradona's second goal against England in 86, for example. I valid assists in Indirect free kick or corners where it has been a pass without interference. The ball has to go straight to the feet or the head of the player who scores the goal. Rebounds and penalties are not valid for me. It's hard, but I try to be as fair as possible.
That final goal was Kleberson's assist and rightly so. A dummy act by Rivaldo was clever but it can not be counted naturally. He just let it rolling toward Ronaldo in better position and (of course) a better finisher
Why earnibg a PK (>80% sure goal) is not an assist? Let's say a player A did a great dribble run and got tripped inside the box, and player B scored on the spot! That was even more than an assist I think. Now, in other hand, a DIVING inside the box that caused a pk (Grosso and Malouda at Wc06) is another story though!
Fair enough, but it is difficult to classify whether it is valid or not how assist and is very questionable for many. So I chose not to use this criterion. And if it were valid, the increase in the number of assist each player would be low. Moreover, in the old match reports, there is often no information about the foul that led to the penalty.
Assist count is always a GREY area. But I can agree in some cases that are not counted for: - Causing a FK:may NOT be counted - since the FK required a lot of his own skills to score! - Causing a rebound should NOT be counted as assist: since the GK already interfered (an act to STOP that shot = done) - A pass to a player who touched the ball more than 3 times before scoring should NOT be counted as assist (since that player required more work of his own skills to score, not bc that pass)
Well, more one assist e maybe other also: • RIVELLINO - S11 9) Brasil 4x3 Peru - Friendly - 1Assist (Carlos Alberto Torres) Reading the match report again, I saw that he was the author of assist for the fourth brazilian goal, scored by Carlos Alberto. • PELÉ - S11 6) Brasil 2x0 URSS - World Cup - 1Assist (Vavá) MAYBE Pele took the second brazilian goal, scored by Vava. It seems that is valid as assist. I let each decide. 1:32
yeah it 's agood assist. Pele made a split pass (between two DF, But that was scored by Garrincha, not Vava.
TOSTÃO 1966 - 7 matches, 6 goals, 1 assist S11 1) Brazil 1x1 Chile - Friendly S11 2) Brazil 1x0 Wales - Friendly S11 3) Brasil 4x1 Poland - Friendly - 2Goals S11 4) Brasil 3x1 Peru - Friendly - 1Goal + 1Assist (Edu) R 5) Brasil 2x1 Czechoslovakia - Friendly S11 6) Brasil 3x2 Sweden - Friendly - 2Goals S11 7) Brasil 1x3 Hungary - World Cup - 1Goal 1967 - 3 matches, 0 goals, 1 assist S11 8) Brasil 0x0 Uruguay - Rio Branco Cup S11 9) Brasil 2x2 Uruguay - Rio Branco Cup - 1Assist (Paulo Borges) S11 10) Brasil 1x1 Uruguay - Rio Branco Cup 1968 - 15 matches, 8 goals, 4 assists S11 11) Brasil 2x0 Uruguay - Rio Branco Cup - 1Goal S11 12) Brasil 4x0 Uruguay - Rio Branco Cup - 1Goal S11 13) Brasil 1x2 West Germany - Friendly - 1Goal S11 14) Brasil 6x3 Poland - Friendly - 1Goal S11 15) Brasil 2x3 Czechoslovakia - Friendly S11 16) Brasil 2x0 Yugoslavia - Friendly - 1Goal S11 17) Brasil 2x0 Portugal - Friendly - 1Goal + 1Assist (Jairzinho) S11 18) Brasil 1x2 México - Friendly - 1Assist (Rivellino) S11 19) Brasil 4x3 Peru - Friendly S11 20) Brasil 4x0 Peru - Friendly - 1Goal S11 21) Brasil 3x2 Argentina - Friendly - 1Assist (Evaldo) R 22) Brasil 1x2 Mexico - Friendly R 23) Brazil 2x1 FIFA XI - Friendly - 1Goal S11 24) Brasil 2x2 West Germany - Friendly S11 25) Brasil 3x3 Yugoslavia - Friendly - 1Assist (Babá) 1969 - 9 matches, 12 goals, 4 assists S11 26) Brasil 2x1 Peru - Friendly - 1Assist (Jairzinho) S11 27) Brasil 2x1 Peru - Friendly - 1Goal S11 28) Brasil 2x1 England - Friendly - 1Goal + 1Assist (Jairzinho) S11 29) Brasil 2x0 Colombia - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals S11 30) Brasil 5x0 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 3Goals + 1Assist (Pelé) S11 31) Brasil 3x0 Paraguay - World Cup Qualifying S11 32) Brasil 6x2 Colombia - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals S11 33) Brasil 6x0 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 3Goals + 1Assist (Pelé) S11 34) Brasil 1x0 Paraguay - World Cup Qualifying 1970 - 9 matches, 3 goals, 4 assists S11 35) Brasil 0x0 Bulgaria - Friendly S11 36) Brasil 1x0 Austria - Friendly S11 37) Brasil 4x1 Czechoslovakia - World Cup S11 38) Brasil 1x0 England - World Cup S11 39) Brasil 3x2 Romania - World Cup - 1Assist (Pelé) S11 40) Brasil 4x2 Peru - World Cup - 2Goals + 1Assist (Rivelino) S11 41) Brasil 3x1 Uruguay - World Cup - 2Assist (Clodoaldo/Jairzinho) S11 42) Brasil 4x1 Italy - World Cup S11 43) Brasil 2x1 Mexico - Friendly - 1Goal 1971 - 6 matches, 2 goals, 0 assist S11 44) Brasil 1x1 Austria - Friendly S11 45) Brasil 1x0 Czechoslovakia - Friendly - 1Goal S11 46) Brasil 0x0 Hungary - Friendly S11 47) Brasil 1x0 Paraguay - Friendly S11 48) Brasil 1x1 Argentina - Roca Cup S11 49) Brasil 2x2 Argentin - Roca Cup - 1Goal 1972 - 5 matches, 1 goal, 0 assist S11 50) Brasil 3x2 Paraguay - Friendly - 1Goal S11 51) Brasil 0x0 Czechoslovakia - Independence Cup S11 52) Brasil 3x0 Yugoslavia - Independence Cup S11 53) Brasil 1x0 Scotland - Independence Cup S11 54) Brasil 1x0 Portugal - Independence Cup Matches: 54 (37W 12D 5L 79.63%) - 51 matches in starting 11 Goals: 32 (0.59%) Assists: 14 (0.26%) Summary: 54 caps, 32 goals, 14 assists (0.85%) Friendlies: 32 caps, 18 goals, 7 assists (0.78%) World Cup: 7 caps, 3 goals, 4 assists (1.00%) WC-qualification: 6 caps, 10 goals, 2 assists (2.00%) Other tournaments: 9 caps, 1 goal, 1 assist (0.22%)
It's sad that his career in high level lasted few years. It is also interesting to realize that between the World Cup 1970 and World Cup 1974, Brazil lost its three main players: Pele, Gerson and Tostao. Difficult for anyone NT, even for Brazil.
Thank you for this great work. Yes, Brazil lost three players but also won some (probably their defense of 1974 was better as the one of 1970) and some others came fully in their prime too. Would like to see the assists of Gerson
The ones that rose were not of the same quality as Tostao, Gerson and obviously Pele. Any Brazilian fan will gladly trade those three in exchange for any others, including a fine defender like Luis Pereira.
Thanks! Brazil always have great talents in the World Cup, but the absence of these players in 1974 was much mourned. Zagallo and people begged Pelé to return, but he refused. Morally, his absence was keenly felt. Tostão had won a great responsibility after 1970 and was the #10, but had to end his career due to eye problem. Clodoaldo and Carlos Alberto were injured. In 1973, Gerson was out due to injury and I believe he hasn't been called to the World Cup for that reason. I am sorry for Tostão, who could have played the World Cup 1978 had he not problems. Worst of all, Pelé stopped in 1971, Tostao and Gerson in 1972 and Carlos Alberto/Clodoaldo were cut in 1974. There was not enough time to plan the team without the stars of 1970. Moreover, Zagallo was very arrogant. After the lose to Netherlands, brazilian newspapers preached the ''death of brazilian football''. The NT hasn't the best football this moment and we had no more brazilian top players. It's funny to see these things today. - Garrincha, Gerson, Jairzinho, Falcao, Kaká are 'required' After all these, I present the statistics of players who didn't a lot of successfully in NT or ''defensive'' players like Roberto Carlos, Nilton Santos, Cafu and etc... I also want to bring match reports of Pele, Garrincha and etc. Everything depends on the time I have available.
It's a very good analysis Puck. However a much simple way is to look at their STATS (winning percentage ) compared to others (same era, same team for example). Obviously, Romario and Ronaldo carried the HIGHER win percentage vs the others (same team same era) - Romario 80% win > Bebeto 77% - Ronaldo 80.8% win > Rivaldo or Roanldinho with 76%, Carlos 76% Cafu 74% win - Pele 80.4% > Gilmar or D.Santos with 75%, Rivelino and Jaizinho with 77% Explanation of winpercentage higher: the team tent to lose more when those names were not there, and won more with them! Garrincha got the highest win percentage with 92% for Brazil (impressive)
Great work, and I agree those names would be interesting too. Another one might be Socrates - obviously he got quite a few goals but it'd be enlightening to see how many assists he got and when if you have the info available. Perhaps since you did Zizinho then Ademir Marques de Menezes could be another worth looking at, but perhaps it would be difficult to be complete for him.
Thanks. Surely I will find the statistics of Socrates. Ademir is also planned. Probably be posting Gerson today or tomorrow. But it seems he doesn't have many assists, perhaps by its positioning.
Thanks. Gerson had some famous long passes that aid his reputation I guess including in the 1970 World Cup Final. I suppose not every great long pass would turn into an assist though. It seems that he was quite a good goalscorer too and evidently sometimes after a nice dribble:
In Brazil NT, Gerson always acted in central line at 4-2-4/4-3-3. Their function has always been controlling the rythm of the game, distributing passes, long passes and eventually coming to attack. In most match reports I've read, it's almost always highlighted as one of the best in the field and tactically decisive pro Brazilian team. Although he hasn't played in Vasco, I like him a lot, because I hear it every weekend on the radio commenting matches He had a magnificent football. His idol and master is Didi... Gerson and always gets emotional when speaking of him. Possibly the two biggest CM/AM in the history of Brazil NT.
Of course you have a better view as me and I would not suggest that it was an equally strong (or spectacular) team but to an degree it is also hindsight reasoning. As said, at some positions (defense) they were arguably even a bit stronger as in 1970 and playing in Europe is no advantage (just like playing on American continent was a disadvantage for most European teams, except West-Germany who struggled the least with the conditions). Think the 1978 team is weaker with a dull playing concept and a injured/out of shape Rivellino and Zico (and Roberto Dinamite not living up to expectations). Funnily, the ELO rating of Brazil was at the start of 1974WC higher as at the start of 1970WC, thanks to their good results in friendlies before the WC. 1970WC: 1967 points, rank 2 1974WC: 2071, rank 1 Their highest rating at 1974WC was 2083 (before game vs Netherlands), which was in 1970 only surpassed before the final was played (2086) and after the final was won (2127).
The brazilian people and journalists criticized Zagallo, in 1974, by the defensive mentality, lack of creativity and other characteristics of the beautiful game compared to 1970. Moreover, the newspapers had declarations of foreigners and they all praised the brazilian style of play. Rinus Michels and Cruyff praised the change of mentality before match. Interesting. Brazil hasn't lost friendlies in 1974. Moreover, he was the world champion. Brazil was very well in 70'Qualifiers but lost some friendlies and Zagallo came on for Saldanha missing months to the start of the World Cup.
One would know that the ranking is a successive statistically base of the PAST. Brazil were obviously lost points for their early exit in WC66 while they were highly rated after WC70 win. So the team 74 were much pressure to repeat the last success - that's why. Another point to Lucas comments, I do not think Brazil NT 70-78 were as "bad as" present. They DID have qualityplayers in Rivelino, Jairzinho, Dirceu, Dinamite, Nelinho, Reinaldo, and coming great star in Zico Faclao Cerezo . At 74, Brazil lost to Poland and Holland as the two quality and strong teams no shame. At 78, The coach was too coward to not play Zico, Falcao along with other attacking mided players, but to play the very conservative Brazil style ever seen. Coutinho the coach made wrong judge to choose Chicao over Falcao, omit Reinaldo, and chose to play old Rivelino + Dirceau over Zico + Reinaldo/Falcao. Zico only played 2 full games in group. At present 2012-14, Brazil were in DEEP LACK of talents like WC90, among the worst ever time!
Me neither, so I said it's funny to analyze this period with the vision today. There were great players, some who would reach its peak in the 1980s. But at the time, was obviously hard to believe we didn't have the most modern and beautiful football in the world and that Cruyff was the best player in the world. Hence the importance of the match against Netherlands. An excerpt from Folha de São Paulo on 03/07/1974 ''Brazil is living today a great day of decision in its history of major international matches [...] Not even the final of this X World Cup, on July 07, could be as important for brazilian football as today, hopelessly needing a victory, against acclaimed, dedicated and gorgeous dutch football, version 1974.''
That was true! Blame it on Di Stefano, Didi, Zizinho to Pele Garrincha who had dominated the world as best players in a long period (note Puskas Best or Eusebio were also regarded as best player but not truely best as Pele/ Di Stefano at times) . Also th fact Brazil won 3WCs in 12years span did PLANT in people mind like "We Brazilian OWN the WC" and "Only Brazilian play beautiful football" ! Holland74 did play beautiful football in their own style, and lately Spain also play beautiful football with their tikitaka! It's time Brazilians to CATCH UP
During this period arose that mentality that continues today. ''The Beautiful Game'' myth is worshiped, even at WC94 and WC02 the brazilian mentality was not only offensive (as is the stereotype of the brazilian game). It is for this reason that the Tele team in WC82 is more idolized than the WC94 team. It is for this reason that brazilians don't admit that Messi (Maradona also) can reach the level of Pele (last year there was a discussion on live television between Tim Vickery and a brazilian journalist about it kkkk)