Yes, the defense system is the main problem. But facing Ronaldo and Romario together is a problem for any defense at any time in history... Romario hasn't had the same speed but its positioning is amazing and the ease to play with other great players. And it experienced and could share responsibility with Ronaldo. If Romario was on 98 and Ronaldo not had your problem, maybe France win but suffer many problems. France had a better team but entered in final as champion. The best Brazilian player had suffered a serious problem and Brazil entered psychologically defeated. Now, imagine if you had another player's to divide responsability with Ronaldo? That player was Romario.
I think you got me wrong here, I said the Ro-Ro partnership would make a huge difference in WC98 team, only one of them would barely make it (like Ronaldo did ). You're right about the midfield and defense weakness (especially in set pieces) but with Romario and Ronaldo in front, they might compensate the difference in goals (Brazil style = opponent socre 1 we score 2). For 2nd bold, With Romario there he will occupy the striker spot and keep the CB at base, while Ronaldo would make a link up with Midfield and create chances. Another thought, that Ronaldo's sickness is mainly due to so much pressure put on his shoulder (21yrs old boy) so that with Romario presence, that pressure will be less and they both will perform better naturally and PSYCHOLOGICALLY - anyway it's HISTORY now
Yes, it can take a few years but on the long run it will recover. It has simply too many pull-factors (certainly with improving economy) and it is socially/culturally too strong and influential. Like I said in post #46, I had the impression that Robinho played a lot better for his national team. A lot more decisive and vivid, quicker in his decisions. Perhaps due to adaptation and interpersonal (subconscious?) understanding. I can understand and agree that one should not easily dismiss a scoring record, solely because it is achieved in a minor league. I raised some points in post #31 but I agree that it is too easy to automatically dismiss a scoring record or performances. Adaptation plays a role and also Dutch players are a 'victim' of this thinking, so I know and realize the problems of this. The trap in this thinking, and which makes it unfair, is that it is always explained in a negative way. If a player steps over to a (on paper) better league and he starts to score more ("explodes"), they say "he has improved", thereby dismissing everything what he achieved before. If his record drops then they say "this is a better league". So no matter what a player does, it is always explained in a 'negative' way I feel. A good example is Van Nistelrooy. When he moved to England and started to produce good numbers too, many easily said "he has improved". But that he also scored well in the Champions League for PSV (with a relatively speaking 'bad' team) and had two knee-surgeries behind him was easily forgotten. There are many examples like him. Truth is that in the past also players from first-tier nations moved to on paper lower leagues. Think about the influx of foreigners to France in the 1980s and 1990s. They moved from England and Italy to France, which was on paper a lower league with lower resistance and intensity (to an extent also Spain was a lower level in the 1980s). Such a transfer (to France) didn't result in noticeably higher scoring records (many times even the opposite). I can think of many examples but a while ago I mentioned the example of Horst Hrubesch, who was an elite striker in the Bundesliga but 'suddenly' moved to Belgium (Standard Liege - Belgium had low taxes in those days btw), which did not result in equally big successes. Similarly, players sometimes move to lower quality teams and start to score more (Roberto Baggio is a good example perhaps?). One thing is true: it is the easiest way to say as a player "I play in the strongest league of the world" and never step out of the comfort zone. Many factors play a role and it is too simply to automatically dismiss a Brazilian striker. I fully agree. Some factors are also detrimental and more challenging for an athlete. The dense and uncertain schedule in Brazil provides a big strain, physically and mentally. The teams are quite balanced which means that players do not only play against 'bad' defenses but also play with 'bad' team-mates. Or what to think of the intensive travelling? In many ways it demands qualities that aren't demanded in the European top leagues. At the same time, I understand the skepticism as explained in post #31 (especially the point about Brasilian Serie A topscorers failing in second-tier European leagues). In case of Romario, notwithstanding the caveats (said in post #47 and #50), it speaks for him that he did well both for his club and national team. I hope you understand what I want to express. I understand that Brazilians can feel agitated if others automatically dismiss a scoring record. [This post also explains well why I care a big deal about whether players can perform in various settings, circumstances and leagues - and preferably they even make a lasting impression on the 'host' nation, make an 'revolutionizing' impact abroad]
Great explanations, Puck. Only facts. Each situation is unique... we must separate each detail to try to make a fair comparison. I don't complain of this discussion, that is very good. But their words are perfect for a discussion between leagues (Brazil vs Big Leagues). To defend his point of view, using every bad argument, on both sides... And about the difficulties of Romario in Brazil... well, as I said, between 1995 and 1999 Romario was never able to play a full Brazilian Championship due to injuries, calls for Brazil NT and two transfers to Valencia. Flamengo never had a great team in this period. In 2000, in Vasco, he had no injuries and played alongside such greats as Edmundo, Juninhos (Paulista and Pernambucano), Felipe, Euller, Jorginho and others. All helped him a lot and he was the top goalscorer of 5 of 6 competitions he competed. Still, he always had great stats in all years. Just clarifying something and you know for sure: no decreases the level of Dutch League and the years there Romario played in PSV. His career in Europe is more than 1993/1994, for sure. - Perhaps I should post some new stats later in thread. Surely tomorrow.
Possibly, however I don't share the view of "add Romario" and we would have won that Final for sure. Or just with a healthy Ronaldo we would have won. It discredits the fact that France had a solid midfield and defense which was confirmed by their solid run of results from 98 to 2001. So that game was always going to be really tough. With Romario up front and Ronaldo dropping back, maybe it would have added some more dynamics to the midfield. But remember that in 94 against a compact Italy, Romario barely had a sniff at the goal. So I don't see how in 98 that would have changed much. Without Romario and with Ronaldo healthy, I am pretty sure we still would have lost as that team never convinced throughout the competition if you analyze every game. Zagallo was just a bad coach and never got that team playing well.
What happened to him was a mystery... perhaps the harassment of the Real Madrid has affected. He arrived in Europe thinking that it was one of the best, with statements such as ''in a few years, I'll be the best in the world.'' He overestimated his talent. Say the same thing happen with Neymar. I think not. Neymar has more talent, is more complete and he likes to train, he focuses on the game, even with a nightlife that it has. And if he goes to Barcelona, will have time to grow in the shadow of Messi.
Is Rivaldo maybe an idea? I understand that this isn't the right place for the subject but wanted to express various pros and cons. I understand the skepticism (someone else raised that here) but at the same time an automatic dismissal of performances solely because it took place in Brazil is misplaced. Anyhow, my bad.
Yes, I will finish Bebeto and then I will make Rivaldo, I already have something advance. And no problem in shifting the focus of the thread. I always do that And your posts are enlightening... Write whenever you want and then we'll have a discussion.
James, You made a good summary about these matches in our Brazil´s supporter view. However, there are too many explanations and we can´t forget about the french view, that means the winner´s view in most of the cases. 1- In WC98, If we had Ro-Ro up front, maybe the game would have been tougher for France, with Ronaldo linked with Rivaldo in the middle and Romario up front. Like you said, unfortunately we´ll never know. On the other hand, France made an amazing match, with solid defense, compact midfielder, Zidane on a good day, etc. Taffarel made some good saves there, that disaster could have been even worse. How much Ronaldo´s colapse had influence on the rest of the team?IMO, it affected a lot, but let´s give the credits for that great french team. 2- In WC2006, Zidane dictated the game, while Kaka and Ronaldinho were lost in the middle. Ronaldo (overweight) was easily isolated up front by the french solid defense. 3- In WC86, Zico was unfit and on the bench most of game. However, I remember that Platini also wasn´t on his best shape. Anyway, he was walking on the pitch and still giving some great passes. My conclusion is that France should be our most feared opponent in a historical perspective (not nowadays).
BEBETO 1985 - 6 matches, 0 goals, 0PK, 1 assist S11 1) Brazil 0x1 Peru - Friendly S11 2) Brazil 2x0 Uruguay - Friendly S11 3) Brazil 2x1 Argentina - Friendly R 4) Brazil 0x1 Colombia - Friendly S11 5) Brazil 1x2 Chile - Friendly - 1Assist (Casagrande) R 6) Brazil 3x1 Chile - Friendly 1989 - 18 matches, 10 goals, 0PK, 2 assists S11 7) Brazil 1x0 Ecuador - Friendly S11 8) Brazil 2x0 Paraguay - Friendly S11 9) Brazil 4x1 Peru - Friendly - 1Goal S11 10) Brazil 4x0 Portugal - Friendly - 1Goal S11 11) Brazil 3x1 Venezuela - Copa América - 1Goal S11 12) Brazil 0x0 Peru - Copa América R 13) Brazil 0x0 Colombia - Copa América S11 14) Brazil 2x0 Paraguay - Copa América - 2Goals S11 15) Brazil 2x0 Argentina - Copa América - 1Goal S11 16) Brazil 3x0 Paraguay - Copa América - 2Goals S11 17) Brasil 1x0 Uruguay - Copa América S11 18) Brazil 1x0 Japan - Friendly S11 19) Brazil 4x0 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals S11 20) Brazil 1x1 Chile - World Cup Qualifying S11 21) Brazil 6x0 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 1Assist (Careca) S11 22) Brazil 1x0 Chile - World Cup Qualifying - 1Assist (Careca) S11 23) Brazil 0x0 Yugoslavia - Friendly R 24) Brazil 1x0 Netherlands - Friendly 1990 - 3 matches, 0 goals, 0PK, 0 assist S11 25) Brazil 0x1 England - Friendly R 26) Brazil 3x3 East Germany - Friendly R 27) Brazil 1x0 Costa Rica - World Cup 1991 - 5 matches, 0 goals, 0PK, 0 assist S11 28) Brazil 3x3 Argentina - Friendly R 29) Brazil 1x1 Argentina - Friendly S11 30) Brazil 0x1 Wales - Friendly S11 31) Brazil 3x1 Yugoslavia - Friendly S11 32) Brazil 2x1 Czechoslovakia - Friendly 1992 - 8 matches, 7 goals, 0PK, 1 assist S11 33) Brazil 3x0 USA - Friendly S11 34) Brazil 3x1 Finland - Friendly - 2Goals S11 35) Brazil 0x1 Uruguay - Friendly S11 36) Brazil 1x1 England - Friendly - 1Goal S11 37) Brazil 5x0 Mexico - Friendship Cup - 2Goals + 1Assist (Renato Gaúcho) S11 38) Brazil 1x0 USA - Friendship Cup - 1Goal R 39) Brazil 2x0 France - Friendly S11 40) Brazil 3x1 Germany - Friendly - 1Goal 1993 - 9 matches, 7 goals, 0PK, 3 assists S11 41) Brazil 1x1 Argentina - Friendly S11 42) Brazil 2x0 Paraguay - Friendly - 1Goal S11 43) Brazil 0x0 Ecuador - World Cup Qualifying S11 44) Brazil 0x2 Bolivia - World Cup Qualifying S11 45) Brazil 5x1 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals S11 46) Brazil 1x1 Uruguay - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal S11 47) Brazil 2x0 Ecuador - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal + 1Assist (Dunga) S11 48) Brazil 6x0 Bolivia - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals + 1Assist (Ricardo Gomes) S11 49) Brazil 2x0 Uruguai - World Cup Qualifying - 1Assist (Romário) 1994 - 11 matches, 8 goals, 1PK, 5 assists S11 50) Brazil 2x0 Argentina - Friendly - 2Goals S11 51) Brazil 1x1 Canada - Friendly S11 52) Brazil 8x2 Honduras - Friendly - 2Goals + 1Assist (Romário) S11 53) Brazil 4x0 El Salvador - Friendly - 1Goal (PK) + 2Assists (Romário/Raí) S11 54) Brazil 2x0 Russia - World Cup - 1Assist (Romário) S11 55) Brazil 3x0 Cameroon - World Cup - 1Goal S11 56) Brazil 1x1 Sweden - World Cup S11 57) Brazil 1x0 USA - World Cup - 1Goal S11 58) Brazil 3x2 Netherlands - World Cup - 1Goal + 1Assist (Romário) S11 59) Brazil 1x0 Sweden - World Cup S11 60) Brazil 0x0 Italy - World Cup 1995 - 2 matches, 2 goals, 0PK, 2 assists S11 61) Brazil 5x0 Slovakia - Friendly - 2Goals S11 62) Brazil 2x0 Uruguay - Friendly - 2Assists (Ronaldo) 1996 - 1 match, 1 goal, 0PK, 1 assist S11 63) Brazil 3x2 South Africa - Friendly - 1Goal + 1Assist (Rivaldo) 1997 - 3 matches, 1 goal, 0PK, 1 assist S11 64) Brazil 2x1 South Africa - Friendly - 1Goal + 1Assist (Romário) S11 65) Brazil 0x0 Australia - Confederations Cup R 66) Brazil 3x2 Mexico - Confederations Cup 1998 - 9 matches, 3 goals, 0PK, 1 assist S11 67) Brazil 2x1 Germany - Friendly S11 68) Brazil 3x0 Andorra - Friendly S11 69) Brazil 2x1 Scotland - World Cup - 1Assist (César Sampaio) S11 70) Brazil 3x0 Morocco - World Cup - 1Goal S11 71) Brazil 1x2 Norway - World Cup - 1Goal S11 72) Brazil 4x1 Chile - World Cup S11 73) Brazil 3x2 Denmark - World Cup - 1Goal S11 74) Brazil 1x1 Netherlands - World Cup S11 75) Brazil 0x3 France - World Cup Matches: 75 (50W 16D 9L 77.33%) - 66 matches in starting 11 Goals: 39 (0.52%) - 1PK Assists: 17 (0.23%) Summary: 75 matches, 39 goals, 17 assists (0.75%) World Cup: 15 matches, 6 goals, 3 assists (0.6%) World Cup Qualifier: 11 matches, 8 goal, 5 assists (1.18%) Copa America: 7 matches, 6 goals, 0 assists (0.86%) Friendlies: 38 matches, 16 goals, 8 assists (0.63%) Other Tournaments: 4 matches, 3 goals, 1 assist (1.00%)
Bebeto... great career in Brazil NT. Everyone knows what he did in the Copa America 1989 and World Cup 1994. In 1998, Edmundo deserved to be part of the starting 11 (due to injury Romario). Bebeto earned the opportunity to be the ''man of Zagallo'' and played well. Except Romario, nobody would do better than him. Just surprised me with 17 assists. It is the only statistic that surprised me in this thread so far. I thought Bebeto had about 30 assists. And I decided don't validate assist to Sampaio in the match against Chile in the World Cup 1998.
Great work on this thread! By the way, do you think that if Bebeto scores in the WC94 final after that errant pass by Cafu had not caught him wrong-footed, does his status rise to the level of Romario and Rivaldo? He was the player of the tournament at CA 89 and Brazil's best player at Seoul 88, both times better than Romario, also Brazil's best player at the Atlanta Olympics 96. He also made La Coruna into a contender and eventual La Liga champion, in the early 90s almost single-handedly in attack. So in summary: Olympics 88 - silver medal, best player CA 89 - champions, best player WC 94 - champions, second-best player Olympics 96 - bronze medal, best player Confed 97 - champions, good performance but overshadowed by Ronaldo - Romario duo WC 98 - vice-champions, good performance but overshadowed by Ronaldo - Rivaldo duo PS: I would count the assist to Sampaio, even if it was unintentional it is technically an assist.
Bebeto was good in all the qualities that a forward needs to have. Not sure about that... Bebeto has no self-pity as Rivaldo. But he has said several times that he don't played less than Romario, Ronaldo and others. There are some factors to Bebeto not be as lauded as Romario and Ronaldo in Brazil: - He played in the two biggest teams in Rio de Janeiro (Vasco da Gama e Flamengo), but lost the idolatry in both. Today he's just respected. - It is unfair, but analyzing superficially, Bebeto never seemed to be a decisive player. Romario made a bad first phase in CA89, but scored the decisive goal. At 93, Romario scored two goals in the decisive game against Uruguay, the only game he played for the Qualifiers. Bebeto was present in much of the campaign. - Bebeto never did played a big european club. His accomplishments in La Coruna are incredible, but it is difficult to popularity playing there. And he was about 30 years... there was no time for a transfer to a big club. And then, we know that the limit of foreigners was hard. - Bebeto never managed to promote. Romario spoke and promised things polemics and played in FC Barcelona. Ronaldo had Nike. At 96, Bebeto returned to Brazil. His performances in Flamengo, Cruzeiro, Vitória and Botafogo were only reasonable. Edmundo had done a brilliant Brazilian Championship 1997 and Muller was not bad. The press in São Paulo called the presence of Denilson in starting 11. But Zagallo, due to injury of Romario, preferred to focus on experience of Bebeto. He was not brilliant at 98 as at 94, but made good matches. It was decent. Edmundo probably wouldn't do better. Anyway, Bebeto x Rivaldo would be a good comparison.
I made a ''ranking'' (players who are at similar level) of forward/strikers in second half of the 1980s until today, only those who have played World Cup: 1º Romário / Ronaldo 2º Bebeto / Rivaldo 3º Careca 4º Edmundo / Renato Gaúcho / Muller / Adriano (maybe) / Robinho (debatable, I'll just put because the curriculum ) 5º Rest
Global. There are other players who have not played World Cup, but I don't wanted extend too much now. It was only a ''small ranking''. With more information on the thread, I will make another ranking.
For 1 (WC98 final) You're right over sudden without Ronaldo moving linking up midfield (like previous games) Brazil became frozen against the "organized MF" of France. I called them "chikenheadless team for that" . For 2: (WC06) Again that's right fact, but Zidane could only dictated the MF for both Kaka and Ronnie were "neutralized" easily by the pair Vieira and Makelele. Let;s NOT just gave ALL CREDITS to Zidane (unfair) like Media did! But more or less the SAME situation for Brazil, Ronaldo was not at his best form, and our MF were vulnerable against (any) organized MF team (not only France but also Holland98 or Turkey02) - However at top form, Ronaldo did OVERCAME the Turkey burden ... So there is a BIG hope if he was fit in both 98 and 06 For 3: Platini was not 100% best at WC86 but he was surely in much better form and played all games. Zico could barely make some subs when the team really desperate. The only bad thing he did was a BIG MISS PK in that game though. Now France 84-86 were among the best France or best teams in history with their great MF (carre' magique) and for that they were same level as Brazil no doubt. Look at 3 scenarios they shared the SAME FACT: our best player coudl NOT play ful game nor was fully fit!
The difference between France and Brazil at WC98 is so abysmal that a fit Ronaldo is still not enough to overcome it. Brazil also needed pk's to eliminate Holland in the semis, and Turkey had no great players to match up against Brazil. For WC06, Ronaldo was not in the best shape but neither was Zidane, so it goes for both teams.
WC02: Well SKorea had no great players to match up Italy nor Spain but they did it (with a little help from Ref though) Football is not black and white all the time and you should have known that! Like USA killed off Spain in last confed right after they corwn the Euro08, is it miracle? NO Paraguay, Uruguay hasd no matching up names to Argentina or Brazil but they killed thjem all at copa11, no? WC06: Let me roll back the clock about FIT and FORM: - FITness" Roanldo just got abck form surgery in ealry 2006, and had NO fitness games before WC06 started. (but like Parreira put faith in him by saying: " If I have to rely goals from Kaka and Ronaldinho then we would never win the WC, so we have to be PATIENT with Ronaldo" - to justify his inclusion in that team": Ronaldo was 35lbs (or kg?) more than normal, and no practice with the team for 6months! - FORM: Now you mixed up with Zidane case about FORM. He was 100% FIT to play WC (not like Ronaldo) the only difference was that he did not have a "good form" with Real before that WC!
RIVALDO 1993 - 1 match, 1 goal, 0FK, 0PK, 0 assist S11 1) Brazil 1x0 Mexico - Friendly - 1Goal 1994 - 1 match, 0 goal, 0FK, 0PK, 0 assist R 2) Brazil 2x0 Argentina - Friendly 1995 - 5 matches, 1 goal, 0FK, 0PK, 1 assist S11 3) Brazil 2x1 Israel - Friendly - 1Goal R 4) Brazil 3x0 Japan - Umbro Cup S11 5) Brazil 2x0 Uruguay - Friendly S11 6) Brazil 1x0 Argentina - Friendly S11 7) Brazil 3x1 Colombia - Friendly - 1Assist (Túlio) 1996 - 2 matches, 2 goals, 1FK, 0PK, 0 assist S11 8) Brazil 8x2 Ghana - Friendly - 1Goal (FK) S11 9) Brazil 3x2 South Africa - Friendly - 1Goal 1997 - 4 matches, 1 goal, 1FK, 0PK, 2 assists S11 10) Brazil 4x2 Ecuador - Friendly - 1Assist (Denilson) S11 11) Brazil 3x0 Wales - Friendly - 1Goal (FK) + 1Assist (Zinho) R 12) Brazil 3x0 Saudi Arabia - Confederations Cup S11 13) Brazil 0x0 Australia - Confederations Cup 1998 - 12 matches, 4 goals, 0FK, 1PK, 3 assists S11 14) Brazil 2x1 Germany - Friendly S11 15) Brazil 3x0 Andorra - Friendly S11 16) Brazil 2x1 Scotland - World Cup S11 17) Brazil 3x0 Morocco - World Cup - 1Goal + 1Assist (Ronaldo) S11 18) Brazil 1x2 Norway - World Cup S11 19) Brazil 1x2 Norway - World Cup S11 20) Brazil 3x2 Denmark - World Cup - 2Goals S11 21) Brazil 1x1 Netherlands - World Cup - 1Assist (Ronaldo) S11 22) Brazil 0x3 France - World Cup S11 23) Brazil 1x1 Yugoslavia - Friendly S11 24) Brazil 5x1 Ecuador - Friendly S11 C2t 25) Brazil 5x1 Russia - Friendly - 1Goal (PK) + 1Assist (Amoroso) 1999 - 13 matches, 8 goals, 1FK, 0PK, 4 assists S11 26) Brazil 0x1 South Korea - Friendly S11 C2t 27) Brazil 2x0 Japan - Friendly - 1Assist (Émerson) S11 28) Brazil 2x2 Netherlands - Friendly - 1Assist (Giovanni) S11 29) Brazil 3x1 Netherlands - Friendly S11 30) Brazil 7x0 Venezuela - Copa América - 1Goal S11 31) Brazil 2x1 Mexico - Copa América S11 32) Brazil 2x1 Argentina - Copa América - 1Goal (FK) S11 33) Brazil 2x0 Mexico - Copa América - 1Goal S11 34) Brazil 3x0 Uruguay - Copa América - 2Goals + 1Assist (Ronaldo) S11 35) Brazil 0x2 Argentina - Friendly S11 36) Brazil 4x2 Argentina - Friendly - 3Goals + 1Assist (Ronaldo) S11 37) Brazil 2x2 Netherlands - Friendly S11 38) Brazil 0x0 Spain - Friendly 2000 - 11 matches, 8 goals, 0FK, 1PK, 1 assist S11 39) Brazil 7x0 Thailand - Friendly - 2Goals S11 40) Brazil 3x2 Ecuador - World Cup Qualifying - 2Goals S11 41) Brazil 3x0 Wales - Friendly - 1Goal S11 42) Brazil 1x1 England - Friendly - 1Assist (França) S11 43) Brazil 1x0 Peru - World Cup Qualifying S11 44) Brazil 1x1 Uruguay - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal (PK) S11 45) Brazil 1x2 Paraguay - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal S11 46) Brazil 3x1 Argentina - World Cup Qualifying S11 47) Brazil 0x3 Chile - World Cup Qualifying S11 48) Brazil 5x0 Bolivia - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal S11 49) Brazil 1x0 Colombia - World Cup Qualifying 2001 - 8 matches, 3 goals, 0FK, 0PK, 3 assists S11 50) Brazil 3x3 Mexico - Friendly - 1Assist (Edilson) S11 51) Brazil 0x1 Ecuador - World Cup Qualifying S11 52) Brazil 0x1 Uruguay - World Cup Qualifying S11 53) Brazil 2x0 Paraguay - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal S11 54) Brazil 1x2 Argentina - World Cup Qualifying S11 55) Brazil 2x0 Chile - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal + 1Assist (Edilson) S11 56) Brazil 1x3 Bolivia - World Cup Qualifying - 1Assist (Edilson) S11 57) Brazil 3x0 Venezuela - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal 2002 - 10 matches, 5 goals, 0FK, 1PK, 1 assists S11 58) Brazil 1x1 Portugal - Friendly S11 59) Brazil 4x0 Malaysia - Friendly S11 60) Brazil 2x1 Turkey - World Cup - 1Goal (PK) + 1Assist (Ronaldo) S11 61) Brazil 4x0 China - World Cup - 1Goal S11 62) Brazil 5x2 Costa Rica - World Cup - 1Goal S11 63) Brazil 2x0 Belgium - World Cup - 1Goal S11 64) Brazil 2x1 England - World Cup - 1Goal S11 65) Brazil 1x0 Turkey - World Cup S11 66) Brazil 2x0 Germany - World Cup S11 67) Brazil 0x1 Paraguay - Friendly 2003 - 7 matches, 1 goal, 0FK, 1PK, 0 assists S11 68) Brazil 0x0 China - Friendly S11 69) Brazil 1x2 Portugal - Friendly S11 70) Brazil 2x1 Colombia - World Cup Qualifying S11 71) Brazil 1x0 Ecuador - World Cup Qualifying S11 72) Brazil 1x0 Jamaica - Friendly S11 73) Brazil 1x1 Peru - World Cup Qualifying - 1Goal (PK) S11 74) Brazil 3x3 Uruguay - World Cup Qualifying Matches: 74 (50W 12D 12L 75.68%) - 71 matches in starting 11 - 2 as captain during the match Goals: 34 (0.47%) - 3FK - 4PK Assists: 15 (0.20%) Summary: 74 caps, 34 goals, 15 assists (0.66%) Friendlies: 33 caps, 12 goals, 9 assists (0.64%) Copa America: 5 caps, 5 goals, 1 assist (1.2%) World Cup: 14 caps, 8 goals, 3 assists (0.78%) WC-qualification: 19 caps, 9 goals, 2 assists (0.58%) Confederations Cup: 2 caps, 0 goals, 0 assists Other tournaments: 1 caps, 0 goal, 0 assist
I decided to validate assists against Ecuador in 1997 and against Chile in 2001. Some sites say that Rivaldo has one, others say two assists in 2002 World Cup Final, but I preferred not validate. I leave to the discretion of you. Because of the Carnaval, I do not know if I can update the thread next week. Day 16/17 I have time and I will bring a list of several players.
More great work. Something that interests me is who is making all these goals. For these players and many more for whom I have seen stats, there is always an imbalance between goals and assists and nobody ever seems to get really high assist numbers.
Yeah, I hoped that some players had more assists. To do statistics, I need to read match reports. And of all the players who've read so far, there is no doubt that Pelé and Ronaldo were the most important for Brazil NT in respect of participation in goals. This is proved in numbers, but there are other goals has indirect participation, as a kick which resulted in a rebound, start of construction of a goal and others. Zico also was very important. ''Disappointed'' with the numbers of Romario between 1986-1992 and Bebeto until 1994.
At WC2002, Rivaldo had 2 ass (1 at 1st game Turkey, and 2 vs Germany ) According to FIFA, 1- bouncing kick is not assist (so that you might see 1 since his 2nd kick caused Roanldo boucing goal) 2- Cause to PK not counted as assist (Stupid rule) 3- Cause to FK not count as assist (acceptable) 4- a grey area: an assist to a player who made a few moves before scoring (solo goal not coun as assist - like the one Ronaldo scored against Turkey in semi, it was a 50-50 call for Gilberto silva who passed to Ronaldo from out side the box!)