In 1968 he was also in great form I think. See also the stats. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/tostao-intlg.html Do you think he was still less important despite scoring goals?
From reading the quotes posted by krokko on my top 50 players ever thread (from Ballon D'or voters was it?) 1970 seems to provide the most glowing description but curiously he actually finished a bit lower that year. Maybe went under the radar a bit compared to when his team got to the EC Final (the votes always tended to reflect the most succesful teams I think)? Perhaps those that did recognise him were greatly impressed but he didn't get seen enough widely. I know from some highlights and your posts/thread that 1970 was a really good year for him though.
He certainly was among the top names. The guy finished 7th for Ballon d'Or without even playing the WC.
I dont really know. Its just what I make out of the available information. He seems to have been great in 1968 indeed, but he scored only 8 times in 13 outings and was a sub in a couple of occassions. Jairzinho scored more than him that year for the NT. In 1969 he scored 12 times in 9 games (did not miss any official game with the NT), far more than anybody else, and most of those were for the WC qualification. It does sound superior to me. He had become by then such a pillar of the NT that when his injury happened Saldanha said what I mentioned before. Not only that, but he actually joined the preparations of the NT two months after everybody else. And even got to be a starter the entire WC under a different coach... Sounds pretty remarkable to me.
1971 There should be little doubt as to who takes the first place for 1971 IMO. Johan Cruyff seems to have been the most outstanding footballer in the world that season. Cruyff managed a total of 27 goals in 37 overall games. Although he could not win the league with Ajax despite his 21 goals in 25 games (finished runner-up), he did lead the team to the KNVB Cup title scoring twice in the final against Sparta. By the way, he had had an impressive 1969-70 season as well, winning league and cup domestically and reaching semifinals of the Fairs Cup (he had been seventh for the 1970 Ballon d'Or). How interesting would it have been to have The Netherlands playing in the 1970 World Cup?! More importantly, he was key in Ajax's European success, the first of three consecutive European Cups won by them. Cruyff scored only one goal during the competition against Celtic in quarterfinals. Then again, Cruyff was a lot more that just scoring goals as shown in the very final against Panathinaikos where he showcased his touch and vision serving the second goal to Arie Haan with a masterful pass inside the box that left the opposition defenders unresponsive. He was awarded the 1971 Ballon d'Or largely dominating the voting. The only negative note was the Netherlands failing to qualify for the 1972 EURO. Cruyff played only three games held in home soil, all three won by the Dutch. Dunno why he did not play the other matches. After Cruyff's first place, things are a bit less clear. Several guys seem to be up there in the mix. You have: George Best. The highly gifted showman was one of the top players in the world during the late 60s and the early 70s. His outstanding form and skill, however, did not translate into collective success as his Manchester United did not manage to keep up the pace of the 1965-68 period. Although some of the pillars of the team, like Stiles and Law, missed too many games, Manchester United narrowly missed entering the continental competitions with an outstanding Best that managed a total of 21 goals in 48 overall games that season, and was third in the race for Ballon d'Or just a single point behind Sandro Mazzola. Günter Netzer. The great German playmaker led his Borussia Mönchengladbach to their second Bundesliga title in a row edging once again the brilliant Bayern Munich of Beckenbauer and Müller. He contributed 9 goals in 32 league games. Although the also outstanding Wolfgang Overath had been the first choice as the national side's playmaker until then, Netzer gained strength during this year winning the starter spot that would see him play a key role in the following year's European Championship (by the time of the 1974 World Cup Overath would be the first choice again). He was fourth for Ballon d'Or. Probably the early exit in the European Cup did not exactly help him to get votes. Sandro Mazzola. He led Inter to the Serie A title contributing 7 goals. Ten seasons would have to go by before the team won the league again. An Italian national team mainstay at the time, he scored his last couple of goals with the Azzurri during late 1970. Although he was a distant second place, only Cruyff got more votes than him for the 1971 Ballon d'Or. He too had a very short campaign at continental level as Inter was eliminated by Newcastle in the first stage of the Fairs Cup. Franz Beckenbauer. The all time great had another extremely consistent campaign being the highest rated player in Bundesliga by Kicker magazine. His Bayern Munich was league runner-up two points behind Mönchengladbach, but they did win the German Cup. Beckenbauer scored a goal in the final against Köln, his only goal in the competition. The team had entered the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup but was eliminated in quarterfinals by Liverpool. Der Kaiser was the fifth choice for Ballon d'Or in 1971. From South America, Tostao was the SAPotY, but I have doubts as to his merits. Does not seem to have played the Mineirao and instead embarqued in extensive touring around South America with Cruzeiro (probably aided his vote getting). Was rather prolific again in the Brasileirao, but not only was he not at the same level of the previous campaign but also he was vastly overshadowed by his teammate Dirceu Lopes (according to the Placar ratings). Instead I would nominate his runner-up for South American Player of the Year, Omar Pastoriza. A former DM successfully transformed into orchestrator given his technical abilities and vision, he led Independiente to a second Argentine title in a row scoring a total of 15 times in 46 games throughout the year. From midfield up, nobody was capped more times than Pastoriza for the Argentine NT during 1971 (the same would happen the following year before he transferred to Monaco).
The France Football rating tells the same as Once's opinion. The 5 men of the offensive line were close the same, considering a short tournament. For example, give 1 point more to Rivelino and 1 less to Jairzinho (very possible scenario due to human error), and the leftie would been 1st in the ratings. Resume of the 1970 Robertao (national competition) Gerson, Jairzinho and Rivelino played few matches and had all of them low ratings (6.3-6.4). Tostao had 7,8 and Pele 7,3 https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/placar-rankings-brazilian-league.1979379/page-2 IMO, in 1970 is a tight race between Tostao and Pele. For 1969. Tostao > Pele. btw, for 1971 it seems that the SAPOtY award was given to Tostao due to his 2 previous world class years (maybe #1 worldwide) and being almost a retired player.
Interesting. From what are those ratings taken? The posted picture leaves Pelé out of the rankings because of his 'out of competition' status.
A 1973 encyclopedia I own says about Tostao: 1963: 6 goals (state league) 1964: 13 goals 1965: 14 goals 1966: 14 goals 1967: 24 goals 1968: 25 goals 1969: 18 goals "Tostao his game is almost exclusively based on intelligence, for though sturdy he is not a big man. His keen intellect more than compensates for any lack of physical attributes. There are few his equal when it comes to running off the ball or suddenly appearing in the right place at the right time." I wonder, did Cruzeiro also play against European clubs? Like Santos did. Like to know their record.
The first two were in the autumn of 1970. He missed those because of injury (when he returned Ajax was sixth in the table after 10 rounds; he had missed 9 games + 80 minutes of another league game). The third one was in April 1971. That was because of fever. He laid with 42 degrees Celsius in bed (also the game against Celtic in 1971 was played with mild fever though it was not at the worst state yet). The negative voices suspected a lack of patriotism.
While I kinda agree with you about Tostao at Brazil champs in 71, was a bit less than his previous year 70 ... Dirceu was Cruzeiros best player in 71 Agree However you should name RIVELINO (won Bola prata) and arguably the best player in SA in 71 This is the best XI of 1971 in Brazil: 1971 Seleção: Andrada (VAS), Humberto Monteiro (CAM), Pescuma (CTB), Vantuir (CAM), Carlindo (CEA), Vanderlei(CAM), Dirceu Lopes (CRU), Rivellino (COR), Antônio Carlos (ARJ), Tião Abatiá (CTB) e Edu (SAN)
This one http://www.national-football-teams.com/country/28/1968/Brazil.html Here it shows unofficial matches too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_in_Brazilian_football
I dont really think one can make a valid case for Rivelino in 1971. At least not without having seen it, just looking at it in retrospect. He seems to have been at outstanding level indeed (as many others surely were too), but won no titles, was the 9th choice for South American Player of the Year (even with several Brazilians ahead of him) and was vastly exceeded by Dirceu Lopes in the Placar ratings (7,66 against 8,41).
Interesting that Pelé was far from his best goalscoring form (4 goals in Robertao - ratio of ~0.25) but is the one who approaches Tostao his rating the most (who scored 12 goals in the same Robertao tournament, which was very much his best output). Do you have an idea about why Pelé his rating was so high despite not scoring at the same rate as before? Did he act as a different player by 1970? For some years he was criticized for not scoring at the same consistency, so therefore I ask. Aware of how many they played?
Jairzinho played half the games and score only two goals. Gérson played slightly more than half the games. Didnt check for Rivelino.
Where did you find that? Maybe you also know about the topscorer tables for those years? Have been looking for that for some while (also Paulista topscorer tables). That would be great in particular.
Blog do Marcao. Not perfectly reliable, but its what I got. Here: http://brfut.blogspot.com.ar/2009/01/taa-de-prata-1970.html Does not have the tables actually, but you can calculate them yourself if you want to.
I wondered why Rivelino finished 2nd and 3rd in SAPotY voting in '76 and '77 and assuming it's due to winning the Rio State Championship as he is not relevant in the Placar ranking. (?) Quite difficult to get what was valued back then in Brazil, but it seems to me it was just as big of a deal as the National Championship. (?)
Rivelino was also the undisputed Brazil NT captain and played some good games against top class opponents (England, Italy, Germany etc.). He wore #10 while Zico was 'relegated' to #8 as shirt number. Info I read said though that Zico was noticeably more popular among the public as Rivelino and anyway the highest paid player in Brazil (salary by club). But apparently Rivelino his status was of a sufficiently high level that he didn't lose his preferred shirt number nor his captaincy (Zico was 2nd captain).
I think it has to do, at least in this particular case, with what Puck is saying. Notice, for instance, 1975 SAPotY. Neither Rivelino (Carioca champion with Flu and a very good campaign with the team in the Brasileirao, though granted, in this competition he did not appera among the highest rated ones) nor Zico (won no titles but was Paulista top scorer and one of the best performers in the Brasileirao according to Placar, unlike Rivelino, by the way) appear in the top ten vote getters. Coincidently, Rivelino played no games that year with the NT and Zico was yet to be capped for the first time. In 1976 they are both up there trailing only Figueroa. They both were among the most capped players for Brazil that year. Zico seems to have hit the ground running at country level as he immediately became one of the main goal getters practically matching the scoring prowess of Roberto Dinamite. At the same time, like Puck mentions, Rivelino was the captain, the number ten, probably the most symbolic player and the one with the highest status in Brazil probably. In 1977 something similar happens. Zico wins no titles with Flamengo, but is Paulista top scorer again and among the best performers in the Brasileiraro. Rivelino lost a lot of ground with Fluminense in the Carioca (fell to the third place) and seems to have had a forgettable campaign in the Brasileirao both individually and with the team. However, Rivelino was still the most capped Brazilian player that year (bar keeper Leao), still captain and a reference/symbol of the Canarinha. Zico was not among the most capped players, but he scored at a great rate when he played. And this year took place the Mundialito de Cali, which was part of the 1978 WC qualification stage. Rivelino was probably perceived as the leader of the team and Zico was the top scorer as Brazil won it. Perhaps this had to do somewhat with them being first (Zico) and second (Rivelino) for the 1977 SAPotY.
Now 1972. I guess some might say I am not being fair and that country level competition should determine things. But for me the number one in 1972 is again Johan Cruyff. In my personal impression, he is clearly the best offensive minded footballer in the world at the time and on top of things he won everything he played for. He was Eredivisie champion and top scorer with 25 goals, and won the KNVB Cup scoring in the final again. More importantly, Ajax also won the European Cup with an outstanding Cruyff that scored both goals in the 2-0 win over Inter in the final, and the Intercontinental Cup, where he managed to score as well. The Dutch legend finished the season with a total of 33 goals in 45 overall games. The 1972 Ballon d'Or voting was extremely close between the three Germans I mention below and Cruyff, who trailed the three top vote getters by a mere six points, even when he entirely missed the European Championship, which most likely had significant impact in the way the votes were given. Had there not been a relevant competition at country level that year he would have very likely taken the award home. But there was, and the Netherlands failed to qualify for it. On the other hand, as said before, Cruyff played only three of their six qualification games... the three games that the Dutch side actually won. The three Germans I talk about are obviously Beckenbauer, Müller and Netzer. To be honest, every time I think about it I feel like ranking them differently, so I wont. I will just mention each of their merits. - Franz Beckenbauer. Der Kaiser led Bayern Munich to regain the Bundesliga title in what was one of his most prolific seasons as he managed to score 6 goals along the way, after Netzer's Mönchengladbach had taken the championship the last two times. Both men were the best players of the season in Bundesliga according to Kicker magazine, although it was Netzer the one taking German Player of the Year honors. Also, he reached with Bayern Munich the semifinal of the European Cup Winners' Cup, getting eliminated by eventual champions Rangers. Now captain of the West Germany NT as well, he was part of the axis (Müller in attack, Netzer in midfield and himself in defense) that led the way to the European Championship. Beckenbauer was named in the Team of the Tournament and eventually earned the 1972 Ballon d'Or (though it was the narrowest balloting ever with eight points separating the winner from the fourth vote getter). - Gerd Müller. Der Bomber was a real scoring machine at the time, at all levels and in all competitions. His 40 goals in 34 league games made him the Bundesliga top scorer again and seasonwise world top scorer for the second time in his career. He managed a total of 50 goals in 48 overall games that season, which include 5 in 8 games of continental level competition. After scoring an impressive 7 times in the qualifying round, Müller kept it up and netted 2 more in the semifinal against Belgium and yet another 2 in the very final against the Soviet Union to be far and away the top scorer of the Euro Championship . He was Beckenbauer's runner-up in that very close top3 for the 1972 Ballon d'Or. - Günter Netzer. In what was perhaps his best year individually, he could not help his Borussia Mönchengladbach retain the Bundesliga title for a consecutive third time (it has to be noticed that defensive stalwart of the team Berti Vogts missed a good part of the season). He did score 17 goals in 28 matches (impressive for a midfield playmaker) and was chosen German Footballer of the Year, though. Finally (but only momentarily) ahead of Overath as the main playmaker of the West German national team, he was a pillar and one of the best performers (it not the very best) of the side that became European Champion in 1972 for the first time, earning a mention in the Team of the Tournament. Beckenbauer took the Ballon d'Or that year with 81 points, but both Müller and Netzer obtained 79 each. It is said that the legendary West Germany squad of Franz Beckenbauer reached its highest level in 1972, the one time when Netzer had a relevant role. The negative note, of course, was the early elimination in the European Cup at hands of Italian champions Inter, after having to replay one of the games due to incidents. Looking at South America, my candidate is Ademir da Guia, probably one of the best Brazilian midfielders ever yet generally so overlooked due to his lack of international exposure. He was the heart and soul of the great Palmeiras side of the sixties and early seventies that were the only real threat to Pelé's Santos in the Paulista league. Remarkably consistent during the early to mid seventies even when he was already in his thirties, Ademir led Palmeiras to win both the Paulista tournament and the Brazilian national championship in 1972. He was included in the Best XI of the latter (Bola de Prata award) and was the fifth choice for South American Player of the Year (the only time he entered the top10 I believe, and without the sometimes desicive support of international or country level exposure). He was surpassed by winner Cubillas, who was the top scorer of the Libertadores that year, and Brazilian fellow countrymen Pelé, Jairzinho and Tostao, all of whom where heroes of 1970, had a lot more name/prestige (certainly outside the home land at the very least) and/or had the benefit of representing Brazil, yet won nothing and were not highly rated by Placar like da Guia was. I hope I am not being unfair.
Many other issues of the Ballon d'Or aside (see Iniesta and Ribery winning the journalist vote lately in 2012 and 2013), probably it had also an effect that Cruyff was after early September not as consistent and dominating any more. In the Intercontinental Cup game at 6 September 1972 he was kicked out of the match and for some reason the inflicted injuries had a serious effect throughout the season (but it is right that Ajax and himself still reached a good level in the return game against Independiente; as well as the 'unofficial' Supercup game against Glasgow Rangers). On the other hand, Ajax suffered shortly before the vote closed a shock exit in the 1972/1973 KNVB Cup at the 2nd round (they had as winners a bye for the 1st rnd). They lost against low-placed NAC (finished 16th in the league), but Cruijff didn't play because of a muscle injury (and his ankle, a result of the aforementioned game against Independiente). And in the European Cup still some goals and assists. Not very easy to say what swung the vote. Sometimes one game can be important (like Rivera and Best as well?).
Winning titles as a TEAM dependent ... not a single man can change 30-50 games over a season. Let's switch Messi to play for Real Madrid from 08-now, you think he will ed up winning 4 ballon dor's and 4 ,5 ligas with 3 UCL? NO. He would be the best player (in overall or general) but that (lacking titles team) would affect heavy on the voters for the "best player in rating" but NOT the best player in "performance" or skills. Brazil leagues were so "competitive" at time and Rivelino did not feature in the best teams at his time ..His career choice might not be so brilliant with Corinthians and Fluminese ... (just above average in the leagues) For your info: during 70-76 everyone (at least in Brazil) would pick Rivelino as the best player no doubt. Dirceu had one or 2 best seasons, but he ain't no Rivelino in talent