Best Dribblers.

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by TKORL, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    you're right ... (because Pichi was a FW/striker, while Maradona was a wide FW, or playmaker)

    but I meant that it was coincidence in seasson 83-84 when Maradona joining Barca, and Pichi became a "bench warmer" - he used to be a regular starter before that season


  2. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

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    Bold part - I just disagree with that statement. Teams are not trying to stop Barca from playing their game - Xavi making his ridiculous passing stats, Iniesta also, Alves, etc. They are trying to limit Messi and force him even deeper, away from the goal and danger area.
    BTW, Mourinho put Pepe as DM to keep an eye on Messi in the 2011 even when on of his starting centerbacks was suspended.
    Bulgaria had no plan for Pele in 66, I guarantee you that.....

    Question: If Messi was playing back in the days when man-marking was common defensive tactic to deal with great players, would've he been man-marked by opponents? Say if Messi was playing instead of Maradona or Zico, would Bearzot assign Gentille to man-mark him? My guess is "yes".....

    The thing is that nowadays there are different defensive tactics and media communication approaches from coaches. Did Mourinho say he played Pepe as DM because of Messi? No, but for me it is clear watching the game. BTW, how often does someone like Mourinho talk about his tactical plans, especially in front of journalists?
  3. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

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    Footballers are not the smartest people, but they know football, while most others don't (even though they assume they do).

    And your theory is that because past players were fouled more and were less protected that's why they are better players than current players like Messi?:rolleyes: That sounds like good logic.....
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    it's again your best assumption there ....
    and how possibly you can warranty that?
    Yes , they would but How Messi would deal with that remained unknown! I only talked of FACT, that he had more freedom on pitch than Pele Cruijff Maradona Ronaldo ... in their peak


  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    What is the main flaw in Iniesta dribbling?
  6. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    What are were twelve?

    Berndt Schuster, 1x Silver Ball, 2x Bronze Ball says basically the same thing, and he played in the same team as Pichi and Maradona. And he was a starter, so what's his excuse? Cesar Menotti says the same, he played in the team, and he was a starter. Is his excuse the same as Schuster's, given that he had a excuse? :laugh:
  7. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    That's not my theory... But it is a fact that the game was more violent before... It is a fact that before the way to stop a dribbler was to foul him hard... It is a fact that yellow cards and red cards were given for blatant obvious aggression, reds usually for fist fights... A great player back then had to start a game worrying about thugs in the field... Not the case today

    or are you going to disagree?

    I pointed out facts you make what you will out of them.
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    There is no excuses on my part, as I watched them play and opinionated accordingly.
    Actually Messi and his fan boys need more excuses to label him as the greatest (*WC+copa) and best dribblers (*playing along 11great Barca team mates)

    Any particular player, or coach has his own agenda or biased opinion within a context when claiming things - Even IF Maradona himself would claim Messi is the best ever, then that does not change anything on Messi legacy. He still needs to prove out in bigger stage like WC/copa without Barca team mates, that's all. He has the talent to do so and the real matter is HOW GOOD he shall be in next chapter ... I reserve my opinion now until then.
  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    And you are still saying he was faster and stronger?
  10. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    Indeed Maradona in his peak was stronger and faster (in acceleration) than Messi is
  11. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    Then I have nothing more to say.
  12. JGGott

    JGGott Member

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    In History, it would be Garrincha with considerable ease.

    Nowadays, probably Neymar.
    Messi is the better player overall (the best in the world, no doubt), but I do not think he is regarded so mainly for his exceptional dribbling. The man is a machine in terms of objectiveness, but I would never consider him an all-time dribbler or "showman", as were Pelé, Maradona and Ronaldinho.
    Guigs repped this.
  13. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    I've been trying to say this to everyone for a while now.. we've voting on best dribbler not best all around player.
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    one thing you should realize that NO COINCIDENCE that Maradona was the "most fouled" player at WC event (at least from 66 - 10) Why?

    because he was fast strong and dangerous in his dribble runs hence individual foul is the ONLY way to stop him - before too late as he entered the box!

    Maradona 152fouls /21games = 7.2fouls per game > Messi 19 fouls/8games = 2.3 fouls per game.
    Maradona won >250duels over 3 WC >> Messi 76 duels won over 2 WCs

    These are STATS to back up a player dribble and running field
  15. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    Why on earth are you repeating this? Nobody is saying that he's the best dribbler because he's the best player.
  16. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    You are seriously unlogical here, Maradona was stronger because he did go down more easily, rather than tried to stay up to the end like Messi? Jesus, can I ask how old you are?
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    Explain to me how people dismiss the comment that Denilson was not one of the best dribblers ever... Because the only recourse i have there is this.. people are judging him as a player as a whole.

    See why I keep repeating... why is Messi on the discussion of best dibbler currently if his only move is to dribble while in speed?

    Here is what the best dribbler in the world is, drop your shoulder one way and just run past somebody... Really??

    I believe the best dribbler does this... leaves you on the ground with a twisted ankle.

    Big difference

    Look... full speed.. but twisted ankle


    Again full speed and guy needs to get his head checked for a concussion


    people seem to have forgotten how good of a dribbler denilson was.

    and for the old timers

    simply ahead of his time.
  18. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    Because he has the most perfect technique and he has been going past people like no-one before? Messi has all the necessary tools to unlock every possible situation with dribbling.

    Simplified, where as Ronaldinho had 10 moves to go past 1 player, Messi has 1 move to go past 10 players. Now you can yourself which one is better.

  19. JGGott

    JGGott Member

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    I think you're confusing 'better player' with 'better dribbler'. They are not necessarily the same.
    Pelé is usually regarded as the greatest player ever, but Garrincha is often called the greatest dribbler of all time.
    Zidane is one of the best players ever, but he is far from being one of the best dribblers.

    And I agree that Denilson should be mentioned, as well as Djalminha. Both were EXCEPTIONAL dribblers.
  20. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    Oh really? Thanks for clearing that up, even if I already pointed about that in the post above. :rolleyes:

    I think you are seriously confused about tricks and dribbling though.
  21. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    Denilson went past everyone at will... he just could not kick if his life depended on it.

    Look at his goals tally... it's low for a reason, dude could not finish!

    And having the 10 moves to get past 1 player makes him a better dribbler by the way... Speed and close ball control a lot of players have it. What's impressive about messi is not that... it's his finishing we can put up so many different videos of players making spectacular runs getting past people just like Messi...

    But most do not end with an spectacular finish... so his dribbling others can match, his finishing beyond impressive.

    what are we voting on again?
    JGGott repped this.
  22. JGGott

    JGGott Member

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    No, I'm not. Dribbling and tricks are related, mate. Much more related than being an objective player, which is not the point here.
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    What do you mean with 'power run style'?
  24. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member

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    :laugh: Tricks are for kids. Dribbling in simplest form is "kicking the ball", and superiority depends on ability to go past people in different situations, and to create with your dribbling. Finishing got nothing to do with being the best at dribbling.
  25. JGGott

    JGGott Member

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    Messi is much more similar to Ronaldo's style than Ronaldinho's. Both were better overall players than the latter, much more objective, whose main qualities were speed, ball control, and finishing; but none of them were better dribblers than Ronaldinho.

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