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Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by R_9-Ronaldo, Jun 16, 2007.
from what i seen in taps of his fights its ali.
Because the end of his career and further more the "no mas" deal stands out to many boxing fans, many forget that in his prime the man was a beast. Manos de Piedra was an apt nickname. You look at his career, at least 100 fights for sure, and he fought anyone put in front of him. He gets love no doubt and as a boxing nation, Panama gets some too.
Yeah, wheres the latino love if anything. Not one latino on this list?
CLose the thread !!
Speaking of Panamanians, a boxer I mentioned earlier, Eusebio Pedroza in his prime was incredible with 19 title defenses. He had an odd punch (bolo) that was very effective in that few if any fighters used such a punch. Again his match with Barry McGuigan was an absolute battle.
i had to say Iron Mike, just cause of the lisp. but damn if he isn't in the lead. you guys are a bunch of cupcakes!
marciano is the best fighter ever
Maybe it is because of my generation, but I don't think anyone could beat Tyson during that year or two that he was at the top of his game. Anyway, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Jimmy Wilde yet--the Ghost with a Hammer in his Hand.
That period was indeed scary- I think that particular Tyson could have taken just about anyone other than Ali (who would have danced and jabbed Tyson to a decision) or Frazier (who probably would have traded punches until Tyson was down).
Yeah, I could see either of those scenarios happening, but I could also see Ali's ropeadope being disasterous with as hard as Tyson was hitting then, and likewise Frazier and Tyson trading punches would be a war of attrition that couldn't be pretty for either.
You know, I'm on the fence about whether Ali would have employed the rope-a-dope tactic against a 1986-1988 Tyson. It definitely could have gone horribly wrong. But (I think) he did with Frazier and Foreman, and they hit every bit as hard as Mike. Also, Ali took a punch better than anyone Tyson ever fought. But I think he'd have used his footspeed against Tyson (no way does Tyson cut off the ring with Ali), and refused to be hit the way Tyson hit everyone else. Meanwhile, every time Tyson rushes in, he gets the shit jabbed out of him.
Absolutely- one (or both) of those guys ends up a litte dumber than he came in. Not sure I'd even want to see that fight.
Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Holmes... you'll never see an era like that again.
Tyson was surprisingly hard to hit when he still cared about technique, i.e. before Cus D'Amato died. It's awfully hard to tell who hit the hardest among Frazier, Foreman, and Tyson...but if I had to choose who to take a punch from, I'm sure it wouldn't have been Tyson. I wonder how he would've done had he come along during the period of the greats, my gut tells me he would have ended a couple careers early, but his would have burnt out even earlier too. For me, I'll always remember the look of terror some of his opponents had in their eyes before their fights.
They were playing Tyson's bouts yday on ESPN Classic and the fight v Spinks was priceless! That guy was knocked out before he ever entered the ring.\
Tyson was a great fighter early on, Rooney and D'Amato knew how to keep him focused. A Tyson v Frasier fight would have been a great one to watch, and I don't think it would have gone more then 6 rounds tops.
I always felt Tyson fell apart when he left Kevin Rooney, who was the holdover from the D'Amato days. When he moved over to Don King's camp, that just sealed the deal. That and he got married to the crazy woman.
The loss to Douglas was a turning point as well--that the long count is so seldom mentioned has always spoken volumes to me about the industry. In retrospect though, I think his eventual breakdown was an inevitability.
The key to this question is the greatest in their PRIME! And without a doubt Mike Tyson in his prime would destroy any other boxer in their prime period. Iron Mike is always labeled as just a brawler but that is just crazy! In his prime he was one of the most technical fighters ever. He was a boxer first and a brawler second. Not to even mention his power and speed. For size no one ever has and ever will match Tyson for power or speed. His combinations were just ridiculous and he was probably the best finisher ever in the heavyweight division. It makes me sick how he flushed his talent, but that shouldn't take away from his accomplishments before all his troubles. Everyone thinks Tyson and they remember the crazy ear biter that couldn't go more than 5 rounds if his life depended on it. As a person Tyson is a lunatic but before he went to prison he was very humble and had more focus in the ring than anybody. If this was a question of the best career Tyson wouldn't stand a chance, and neither would Ali for all u Ali is the greatest ever people out there. Most of the ones saying that may have seen 3 two minute you tube clips of him. Tyson vs. Ali both in their prime Tyson KO's him by the 6th. Just go watch any Tyson fight pre-douglas and you will see what I mean. Most of Tyson's fight didnt even last 5 rounds he was such an animal in the ring. Tyson hand's down greatest ever in his prime and no one else is even close.
I can't say I really agree with entirely. Tyson was a beast but far from technical boxer. Under the guidance of Cus, he had the potential to be the boxer you envision but once Cus passed, that discipline went with it. Although having a ridiculously powerful jab, he didn't use it nearly enough.
As for your assertion that Tyson would KO Ali in six, with Tyson's power it certainly was possible but relying on more than youtube clips, Ali's expert footwork and continuous jab would cause Tyson to likely get frustrated and start swing for the fences so to say. It would be at that point that Tyson would leave himself exposed to a counter-punch. Of course with Ali being a fan of the rope-a-dope, anything could be possible but with Ali's ring smarts, I doubt he would hang out on the ropes too much.
As for Tyson's power, you discount just how hard guys like Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, George Foreman and Ali for that matter punched. Those guys are just the ones that spring to mind and certainly other heavy hitter existed. As hard as Tyson hit, more than a few "experts" felt Foreman had the heaviest hands. Food for thought.
As for your comment about neither Tyson nor Ali having the best career, I may not really have any point of contention with that but who would you say did have the best career? I've never really been able to nail it down to one fighter but my short list includes the aforementioned Ali, Marciano (for never being defeated) Louis and surprisingly Larry Holmes.
When talking about HWs, Joe Louis, Ali, Lennox Lewis, and Larry Holmes are all in a class of their own.
JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ!! No-one else comes close!! Almost went 100-0.....
He wasn't even the best boxer of his era.
He went up in class and won several championships at different weight classes. He had a remarkable record when it came to championship fights.
Sorry, broomtree, I know that in your clouded brain, Butterbean was the greatest champ ever, but the facts speak otherwise.
Boxers of his era like Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Roy Jones Jr., Holyfield, Pernell Whitaker all have greater legacies. Maybe not Jones.
JCC is top-30 all time, but neither his resume nor his boxing ability puts him any higher.
Is JCC one of the greatest? Yeah. Is he the greatest? No.
P.S. Duran and Monzon are the greatest of the Latin Americans.
Salvador Sanchez would have been the greatest latin american boxer of all times!