Berti Vogts has been named special advisor to Klinsmann for the World Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by deuteronomy, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    The German papers are indeed having a field day with this, and some commenters are wondering what "training plans" Vogts will be cooking up for us. For every three posters who ridicule Klinsi and Vogts, another reminds them that Berti is the last coach to actually win them hardware.

    If this really has been in the works for a while, as Jurgen claims, then the timing is perfect. It's a little gamesmanship, and it covers up whatever minor PR damage might result from dumping Vasquez.
     
  2. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    If I know Germans and I could write a book on this topic it simply means:

    In the end, Germans do it better. They are the only people you can rely on.
     
  3. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Pep? Stepped into a great team that the year before won the CL? Same with BM.

    I have no doubt he is great, blah, blah, but he hasn't built sh*t.
     
  4. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would surprise me greatly if Berti Vogts were not on the sideline beside Jurgen when the matches kick off in Brazil.

    1. Vogts has probably coached 300-400 National team matches as a head coach. That kind of experience is very rare and impossible to create from the eyes of someone like Tab Ramos.

    2. There are a number of things that a person from this perspective can see, that are hidden.
    a. Does the team seem appropriately motivated (usually not a problem at the World Cup)?
    b. Any unusual behavior from the players?
    c. Are the tactics and game plan appropriate?
    d. Is the team and each individual player on board with their role?
    e. Is there someone that requires a conversation?

    once the games start
    a. Is there a match up problem (Rico Clark vs Ghana as an example)
    b. Is the team implementing the tactics?
    c. What kind of conversations need to be had at half time (calm or an ass chewing?)
    d. What might be the most effective sub?
    e. Jurgen would value him greatly as someone to speak with and bounce ideas off of, during the match.

    This is an excellent hire.

    Props to Jurgen Klinsmann.
     
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  5. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is another question.

    Why dump Martin Vasquez who has certainly been a loyal soldier just two weeks before heading to Brazil.
    Which is certainly what MV has also been working for and striving for since he was hired.

    Why not just add Vogts to the mix and let the press sort out the new heirarchy?
    Why kick MV to the curb, just before the World Cup? (instead of just adding a position for Berti and keeping
    Martin around?)

    I'm not sure what is going on, here, maybe nothing, but it sure is surprising to me.
     
  6. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland
    Barca didn't win the CL the year before. I think that was two years before. the year before they finished 3rd behind Villareal after limping home and Rijkard was shown to be a very, very average manager (proven out a few times since). Pep immediately jettisoned untouchables Ronny, Deco and Eto, revamped the training and tactics behind previously unloved Xavi and built around a guy named Messi he had in the academy and went on the greatest run in modern soccer history.

    I will agree that the move to Bayern was a little chicken$hit. Go prove your greatness somewhere like Schalke. Thats what I want to see.


    There are those that claim some (a lot) of the Barca/Spanish success of 08-12 was due in part to the Spanish Doctor doping scandal. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory, but I find it interesting if not highly coincidental that the greatest runs in Spanish sports (tennis, cycling, football, etc) all coincide with this doc and his Balco type lab.
     
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  7. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    I have a feeling that Tab Ramos is not Klinsmann's guy, but probably forced on him by USSF. US Soccer is going to want one of their own in the middle of training and coaching of the team. It's likely that Tab will lay out cones, make sure there are the correct amount of training jerseys, ect. If JK was willing to give Ramos the title for appearance sake, then he could have the guy he really wanted next to him, Vogts.

    Bora went through this when he was hired to coach the team before the '94 World Cup. He was denied his choices for assistants and told he had to work with Americans. Steve Sampson and Sigi Schmid were "assigned" to coach alongside him. Bora pretty much hated Sigi (German ancestry doesn't mix well with Serbian since WWII), but he liked "yes man" Sampson.
     
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  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We'd start filling up our ranks with Franco-Americans then.
     
  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You mean the period when Arsenal was in first place. Got it.
     
  10. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    if that's a burn, it is a very, very good one. Franconistas are hiding in every spanish closet.
     
  11. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    In Germany they will usually have a retiring NT member spend a cycle as a youth team coach then a cycle as an assistant coach for the full NT to finally be handed the reins the next cycle. Again, Ramos has not shown all that much in his U-20 stint but he is a legend and he does have a coach type personality. This actually sounds like something Klinsmann might have initiated. After four years, he should not need his "people" at every position. His solidly in control.
     
  12. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    ALso, the guy has a pretty good amount of coaching at the grassroots youth level--but he's still pretty 'new' to this level
     
  13. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    This is why I said it is personal. Too many things became apparent. I think MV was Bocanegra'd.

    Coincidentally, it has taken a full year for Moyes to recreate ManU in his own image, basically making his team physically and mentally weak enough to accept the role of underdogs, then thrive under it so they can work themselves back.

    It is a strange inferiority complex, probably a cultural thing with Moyes, but I wonder how long it will take Klinsie to build the ultra optimistic, ultra competitive, ultra achieving, we must use superior mentality and work ethic to win kind of team?
     
  14. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Huh? Anyone who follows that side realized they were going to be in trouble this season, especially after the front office blew it on the transfer front by chasing stars, rather than achievable quality in the transfer window. This wasn't about Moyes re-creating a side in his image. It was about a deeply flawed squad he inherited.

    Their central midfield starters wouldn't start for most of the top half of the Premiership, and certainly none of the top Champion's League sides in Europe. Their wing players going into the season, Ashley Young, Nani, Antonio Valencia, and Wilfried Zaha ranged from adequate to good, and none world class. Their central defenders were on the downside, the left back was slowing down with age, while their RB never made the leap to being a top class player. They have perhaps the best set of strikers in the world with Rooney, RvP, Welback, and Chichorito...but lacked any sort of creativity in the midfield to actually make use of it.

    Further, Moyes one real mistake was using Kagawa on the periphery, where he doesn't excel, which meant he didn't play nearly enough. On the upside, Moyes mad a very smart move in lifting Januzaj to the 1st team. He's a star in the making, though still a few years from it.

    But basically, almost the entire squad has to be overhauled. Sir Alex got their best last season, in one last effort, but this year their age has caught up, and the likes of Giggs and Scholes aren't the ageless wonders any longer. You're going to see a VERY different Utd squad next season.
     
  15. futbal4eva

    futbal4eva Member+

    Jan 3, 2010
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Too many cooks.
     
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  16. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I fully understand the term, "tactics". Arsene has established a system of play (possession oriented, attacking football) but he's not good with his tactics (strategy against a specific opponent) or his in-game adjustments. Team full of french players? When was the last time you actually paid attention to Arsenal? This isn't the 2000 anymore. There are more Germans, Spaniards and Britains on this team than Frenchman.
     
  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    When that is what we demand.

    Klinsi will sell the USA the product USA wants. That is not his team out there, it is your team.

    You dont seriously think that soccer legend German nat team striker Jurgen Klinsmann called up Terrence Boyd out of 4th division at age 19 to play for "his" team, do you?
     
  18. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    I'm expecting we will be able to read all about it in Martin's upcoming book, "Assistant Coach for Life."
     
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  19. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did he sleep with Berti Vogts' wife? If so, you'll hear about it on the record in about a decade. There will be rumors only until then.
     
  20. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
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  21. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Kissinger and Nixon are like Berti and Klinsmann

    A few days ago Thomas Helmer lost his tongue. He - who used to be a brave defender for the fatherland bemedaled with Orders of Merits, Iron Crosses and tackling barrettes, in a national team that won its last title in the last millennium - was totally done. When he heard his former coach Berti Vogts would be joining his former captain Jürgen Klinsmann in his war on German soccer: "it's incredible that both will spy on our team!"

    Explosive and shocking are the photos showing Berti in a spick and span training suit of the USMNT. The information of his defection came as the greatest bombshell since Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg announced he would move to Connecticut.

    What's going on there in America? What are Klinsmann and Vogts up to? In which way is Berti spying on team Germany?

    In order to clarify these questions with Klinsmann's new special advisor I swiftly took a flight over the pond to the country of opportunity and I will tell you this right away: as a spy Vogts will be sitting from now on somwhere in the US watching Bundesliga and Jogi's WC stars for free. Last weekend I did my Bundesliga observation in a sports bar in Miami: Friday HSV – Leverkusen, Saturday Augsburg – Bayern and Dortmund – Wolfsburg, Sunday Hertha – Hoffenheim – all live, all via „Gol TV“.

    What intend Klinsi and Berti to do with Jogi?

    That is what Berti should be doing to from now on: with ballpoint, notepad and milkshake following all games noting every new dribbling or scissor of all possible German players - in sketches and notes. When Marco Reus goes into dribbling and suddenly gets around the opposite player left instead of right, Berti will be making notes and two minutes later Klinsmann will know it by sms.

    What are these two guys are up to? Infiltrating Jogi Löw's team, pyschologically and tactically? Do we need to bother before the game against the US in Recife in June? What is Berti's mission?

    It is clear the Americans prepare to beat us with our own weapons - the USSF admitted freely when they presented Berti Vogts with snappy words: "nicknamed "the terrier" because of his determined style, he is credited with shutting down Johann Cruyff in the 1974 World Cup final." This reverent praise got printed by all newspapers countrywide. The Americans have an itch for our virtues and allegedly Klinsmann old his special advisor: "Come, old marker, show them boys a good German slide tackle."

    Relentlessly Klinsmann is turning US soccer upside down towards the German way. But he does not just rely on Berti. Alongside with him sitting on the US bench Vienna's soccer Mozart and former German title winner Andi Herzog and Klinsmann's Swabian buddy Sigi Schmidt is best in MLS coaching Seattle Sounders. As a boy emigrated from Tübingen he was US assistant coach in 1994. In 2005 he coached the US U20 and when he met Michael Skibbe's German U20 he said: "it feels great."

    In the sere and yellow Vogts forgets about relatives

    Just like for Berti now. At this year's world cup he wants to show all the world how to set Germans onto Germans. In old age he forgets about relatvies and meanwhile even plays against himself: in a test at the end of May he will coach Azerbaijan against the US. On one bench Berti, on the other Vogts. A real cowboy rides two horses with one butt. Obviously, this will go down well with the Americans.

    All strayed to Germans never disapponted there anyway: Levi Strauss gave them the jeans, Einstein showed them thinking and Werher von Braun's rocket brought them to the moon. Vogts is to Klinsmann what Henry Kissinger used to be for Nixon. Kissinger by the way is of German ancestry, Barack Obama's ancestors came 1750 from Swabian village Besigheim - and we dont even need to mention the likes of George Washington, Herbert Hoover und Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    To put it in a nutshell, without us they still would be very busy with practicing upright walking. Not with facing world super power no.1. Oh, we almost forgot about Marlene Dietrich. Just when she had emigrated her singing supported US troops psychologically. Will they beat us thanks to their Germans this summer again?

    German is the language of the USMNT. Frankfurt born Jermaine Jones even tends to be their captain from time to time and so that Hoffenheim's and Nürnberg's Danny Williams, Fabian Johnson do not feel alone they have Mathias Hamann. The brother of Didi Hamann is scouting tirelessly German talents for American blood, who can play 3m passes without breaking their legs. Last week Julian Green defected, Bayern Munich reserve's goal scorer. All of America is deeply stirred cause the 18-year-old greenhorn told in interviews he also "had a conversation with Hansi Flick". He rebuffed DFB's subnegotiator. Was it Berti? Is alienation part of his job? Do we have to take Moscow seriously in warning us NSA is tapping Jogi Löw's cellphone? Why isnt our soccer chancellor doing anything about it?
     
  22. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tongue in cheek. Very good!
     
  23. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is some of the funniest stuff I have read on Big Soccer in quite some time . . .

    Thanks to Scotty for posting it and to WhiteBlue_1860 for the superb translation . .
     
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  24. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
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  25. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I was including an educated guess at the U-21 matches he coached (which is a big deal competition in Europe). (Don't want to get you going, here . . .) :D
     

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