Benny Feilhaber now sits behind a 17 year old at NE?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by supercooper, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Minor correction: I remember he was earning rave reviews in the Danish 1st division the year that Aarhus was relegated.

    And, I mean obviously his club struggles might cause people to re-evaluate their opinion of Feilhaber, but I think he has a substantial enough body of strong performances for the national team, that you can't simply write off people's perception of him as some sort of mirage. Although, the extent to which those performances came in a super-sub role may be tied to Feilhaber's inability to find sustained success at the club level.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  2. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) Hamburg was above his skillset.....fine, its above plenty of players skillsets

    2) Derby......in all of my years watching the EPL i have NEVER seen a team that lousy. To this day that still stands. If you had Messi on that Derby side they still would have been the worst EPL side in history. Anyone with common sense can only write that one off. That was just about the most ill-advised move he could have made.

    3) Aahrus, actually got rave reviews there. Was pretty surprised he left given how well it was going.

    4) NE Revs. His first season......was not all that bad. This season certainly was, but again. He plays for one of the two MLS graveyards. Surely some leniency can be shown there.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I won't argue against any of this, it's all pretty accurate. (Derby in particular was a disaster that had for more to do with a pathetic team attempting unsuccessfully to go with the grind-it-out strategy than anything else.) But the reasons that he didn't get an extension at Aarhus are largely in line with a lot of the reasons why he has not played well at New England for the most part. And repeatedly, he has proven to be the kind of guy that just does not fight for it, take the game or the season by the scruff of the neck and make the result that you want. He lacks that. And that's a big thing to lack.

    The story that he got kicked out of national team camp for getting into it with Freddy is just too poetic. Two guys with very similar problems, and it's all between the ears. Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't like each other.

    This coming from someone who has always loved his game from his early Hamburg run and his first caps. I've always been a fan of Benny. Still am.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  4. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    When you pile all those clubs and explanations on top of each other, it does sound like you're making excuses for him, but I do think that's largely accurate.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  5. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    perhaps, but the only two he was in any position to succeed were really Hamburg and Aahrus. Hamburg had the perfect storm for him to get playing time and make an influence, you cant say they didnt give him a chance with all the injuries. just wasnt good enough. I think Aahrus was more financial than him not being wanted back for his talent. MLS is starting to get a foothold on the scandinavian leagues as far as finances go and pay for players. Danish clubs arent throwing out nearly as much dough around as they used to, and i think it came down to MLS offering more $$$.
     
  6. jclampit

    jclampit Member

    Apr 12, 2002
    Fwiw, they're probably also #1 and #2 this year in MLS in "big chances" created that recipients failed to finish.

    For example, the last time I checked, the Galaxy and Sounders finished 70% and 87 % of the big chances Landon Donovan and Mauro Rosales created. Only 2 players, meanwhile, played for teams that finished less than 25% of the big chances they created (22% for Benny and 7% for Freddy).

    Not saying either would have been an all-star had their teams not been inept at finishing, but lenses do matter. Apply the Galaxy's 70% finishing ratio (which, at a glance, looks pretty typical) to their big chances created, and the Union are the 2nd highest scoring team in the East, while the Revolution are in the middle of the pack (goals scored) instead of at the bottom.

    Double digit assist guys whose teams are scoring goals and, thus, winning (more) games are probably typically rated higher than Benny and Freddy were this year.
     
  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I won't even begin to address the many issues with the play of both of these guys this year (or throughout their careers), however if what you say were true only of this year then a certain point could be made. Underachievement has been epidemic throughout their careers. Personally, I'm particularly disappointed in Feilhaber's season (and I'm sure if he's honest, he would be, too). He got outshone by far lesser players on his own team. There's no way that a guy like Lee Nguyen should've been more important to the Revs than Benny, and yet that is in fact how it played out.

    In other words, this season has hardly been atypical of either players' career. In fact, in Freddy's case, it's been atypical in a good way, in that it's the most he's played in ages, and yet he was still hardly ever a 90 minute player. For that matter, Benny wasn't a real 90 minute guy, either.

    None of this is meant to be synonymous in any way with the statement "he sucks," by the way. Not only is Benny one of my personal favorites, but he's an excellent creative player who honestly should be a fairly important USMNT pool player, but he isn't and he really hasn't made much of a case for himself at all, really.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  8. jclampit

    jclampit Member

    Apr 12, 2002
    Yep, neither of their pro careers has been as good as we all hoped/expected. </understatement>

    I'm merely saying they may have had better years than many think (not the same thing, btw, as saying they had 'good' years). Teammates w/ merely 'average' finishing rates means they have more assists and their teams have more goals and possibly more wins (moreso in Freddy's case, since he created more big chances than Benny did; based on OPTA stats, Freddy may have created more big chances/minute than anyone in MLS this year).

    W/ avg - as opposed to abysmal - finishing, maybe the reaction is "ok season, but I expect more", vs. "wow, what disappointments" (since more assists, goals, and wins usually = friendlier player assessments). The goal of creative playmakers is to create big chances, and both these guys probably did more of that this year than they're given credit for.

    Doesn't mean they still shouldn't have played better. Freddy, for example, should still have been more consistent and a 90 minute player more often. I didn't watch too much of Benny, but I assume his play could have been better as well.

    Btw, another guy whose teammates did an amazingly good job of whiffing on those chances? Lee Nguyen... Iirc (don't have the stats handy at the moment), these were the only 3 guys in MLS who created more than 5 big chances and whose teammates finished less than 1/3 of them.
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  9. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then much better teams with much smarter guys following these stats will surely sign these players for big money.

    Right?
     
  10. jclampit

    jclampit Member

    Apr 12, 2002
    I doubt it. Even with decent finishing, they may not have been worth the DP money they already make. (Remember, I never said they had 'good' seasons...just that they may have played better than many think. Mediocre, after all, is an upgrade from crap, no? Even if I was in a kind mood, "decent, but sure not worth DP money" is about as high as I'd personally rate their 2012 seasons.)

    And who knows to what degree teams lean on metrics and in-depth analysis versus gut-based opinion. (Studies I've seen suggest guts still rule; not saying they shouldn't, btw, just saying they do.)

    Maybe their teams - if they care about this kind of analysis - are simply less apt to try and get rid of them?
     
  11. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    found a team yet? ....
     
  12. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if its within MLS a trade will happen second round of kinda sorta free agency that MLS does.
     
  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    My opinion is that there probably is a connection.
     
  14. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    off to SKC. Zusi + Feilhaber running the show in midfield for SKC? thats gonna be fun to watch
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  15. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huge opportunity for Benny. Some people came to his (and Adu's) defense by saying they were much better than they showed on crap teams.

    Benny can now prove to everyone that was true. KC is an excellent team.
     
  16. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Eh, I have always liked Benny, but if he doesn't succeed at KC then those same people will just say it's MLS's fault as a league. There will always be something.

    That being said I wish him well.
     
  17. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    as a benny fan you wont hear that out of me. This is his chance to shine, hes been given the ideal situation. If he doesnt with one of the top 4 teams in the league, especially one that caters to him perfectly, its 100% on him. I hope to see an EJ type turnaround though. New England got a good deal out of it too given the situation with allocation money and a few draft picks.
     
    Zoidberg, deuteronomy and Marko72 repped this.
  18. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    I have to think KC had the Champions League in mind also when it came to Benny. U would think that was a comp he could do well in.
     
  19. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    If Feilhaber doesn't succeed at KC let me just say it's MLS's fault as a league.
     
    Mr Martin, Zoidberg and Marko72 repped this.
  20. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was it New England or Feilhaber, both? We'll see. Certainly an upgrade in talent.

    Feilhaber was a nice super sub for the US. Provided a spark when needed, added a bit of flair. But when he started he was invisible/average. He played his role well.
     
  21. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Feilhaber was selected 4 times for the Superliga 'Team of the Week' the year AGF suffered relegation, though it was in round 2, 8, 10 and 12 when AGF was still doing well (and actually were in 6th place, 14 points above the drop zone). Then they got badly struck by injuries in the winter break and the impossible happened... Lee Nguyen, who has also been mentioned in this thread, was never anywhere near getting selected for a Superliga 'Team of the Week' ... or perhaps I should rather say a "bench sitter of the week" award, when we are talking about Nguyen ;) ...
    .
     
    HartwickFan repped this.
  22. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Funny, because Nguyen has probably done better in MLS than Benny has.
     
  23. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I agree, and I think it reflects poorly on some of Benny's intangibles, because I strongly feel that Benny is a higher quality player than Nguyen.
     
  24. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Personally, I think they're about equal in abilities, but Lee's tend to work better in MLS, because of his quickness.
     
  25. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    In Denmark Nguyen looked like the "dime a dozen" kind of player, you perhaps can use in the last 20 minutes of a game, but who would never make it as a regular starter... he did get his opportunity to play the full 90 minutes in 4 games in a row, but then just quickly faded away, playing fewer and fewer minutes... Benny on the other hand, was levels better, though he was never really able to score the goals that was expected of him (considering his other skills and his fairly high wages), which I also suspect was the main reason why he did not get his contract extended and never was picked up by a bigger club.
    .
     
    deuteronomy repped this.

Share This Page