Review: Batista

With the Copa America coming up, I'm torn with regards to our chances of winning it. In 2008, it seemed that Batista had the inside line with regards to the Technical Direction of the Argentine National Team, but then the Diego debacle commenced and everything is pretty much history.

Then came the aftermath: we lost the WC, Batista became coach, Diego runs at Grondona in the media and vice versa. Now we are a month away from the Copa America and La Seleccion is starting to take form.

My thoughts here are what does everyone think about Batista? And what are our chances of winning the Copa with him at the helm?

He's cited 81 players in much less time than Maradona but it has a lot to do with the local NT and now a seleccion "B", which is comprised of younger lower level talent that is dispersed in Europe. This process has allowed players like Biglia, Tino Acosta and Ojeda to get a look and hopefully get them included into the Seleccion.

Seems like Batista has made many positive changes which I hope will continue along into the WCQ's. Thoughts?

We have flattered to deceive so often at international level that it will be only when the tournament starts that we can say with any certainty if we are making progress or not. Only victory will suffice, anything less will be a failure imho.

So lets wait and see.

I reserve judgment untill after we beat Brazil in the final.

Well said.

While Batista may be calling up the right players, I think tactically, he's a mess. I find he relies way too much on Messi. I know they were only friendly matches or whatever, but the matches against Portugal and Brazil, he was our attack. It seems his plan is just "pass the ball to Lionel and pray that he scores". He has Messi playing as the playmaker (since he's playing with 3DM's) and also as a false #9.

I liked the way the team was playing against the States (mostly in the first half) where we were back to playing the Argentino way, but aside from that, meh.

He waits way too long to make substitutions and the whole thing with Tevez/Aguero rubbed me the wrong way. However, I do like that he continued with the domestic team and introduced a European "B" team which could help in the long run.

If he wins us the Copa America, I might change my tune. With that said, I don't think he'll make it past the qualifiers. But, let's wait and see.

Looking at the USA game, we look much better, nothing like under Diego.

I actually think Batista fav player is Ever Banega, but Messi is what is talked about in the media.

Julio and Maradona argument are not really helping these days. Neither are disputes between Tevez and Batista, but if Tevez gets picked, things should be fine between them.

Then we still have Diego to deal with.

However that didn't start with Maradona either, it started with Pekerman he called over 70 players. The matter with that is, there're dozens of argentines in Europe in general they're important on their teams so I guess that makes them deserving a call, add to that the ones playing in Argentina, plus the occassional "flavors of the month" which make coaches bite the bait(In general I'm wondering if the whole copying Barcelona's style isn't because Batista bit the bait with that too, because on occassion it's made seen by journalists as it's the exclusive resposability of argentine football to replicate it), also I believe the national team is playing more matches than what they used to in the past, that gives more chances to test players, however FIFA has to address why there were so few FIFA matchdays before the World Cup...

I don't know how you can think this guy is calling the right players... he calls people like Milito and Gago who live injured and wouldn't play at their clubs even if healthy. G. Milito couldn't play in the nacional b. every time he played for barcelona he was embarrassed, there were no exceptions, yet for batista he's an unquestioned starter. god knows what gago is doing there, or this biglia obsession is a joke as well. Not picking 1 player from Velez is just an insult for those players who worked hard, played through injuries, etc. only for him to pick useless players like gago, milito, and biglia

there may not be as high profile an absentee as Zanetti being replaced by Garce like last year, but this list is just as bad as maradonas

i think more local players should be included, but im not even talking about them. How for example, is Otamendi not in the list? its a scandle IMO

on the local players list, Enzo Perez had his worst tournament since he got to estudiantes and he made, yet moralez, alvarez, martinez didn't Or why not Lamela to give him some experience?

I see what you mean. What I meant about calling-up the right players is that the ones who should be called, have been called (at one point in time since he has taken over), I wasn't only talking about the preliminary list.

I think Batista still thinks he's living in 2008 where Gago was actually getting minutes and Lavezzi was doing pretty good with Napoli. Just looking at that list, Lavezzi, Gago, Gabriel Milito, Biglia (due to injury), E. Insua and probably Perez should not be there.

The thing about the Velez players is that because of Libertadores duty, they haven't been able to get called-up to the domestic team. But that's still not an excuse by Batista not to put them in the preliminay list of players or even pick them for the final squad. Those guys are playing very well and if together on the pitch at the same time, can help with team chemistry.

If the rumored preliminary list is true and Otamendi is ignored, it's a joke. He's had a very good season with Porto and should be included in the list. Garay is not even getting minutes with Madrid yet is rumoured to be starting tomorrow against Nigeria.

Lamela is going to get called-up to the U20 World Cup, but I wouldn't mind seeing him at the Copa, if for anything, just to get some experience.

Too much fuzz about Gago, when this isn't the definitive list...

Also Biglia has been a regular call-up for Batista and has played well when he entered the pitch.

And the Vélez players that could make the list are players in positions that are already covered too. The problem is that people doesn't really know what they want so they don't stop to think that to include some you have exclude others, they wanted Tévez and Agüero, okay, now they also want Juan Manuel Martínez...

what was the point of the local NT? In my opinion, local players should be chosen. I know most people on these boards don't follow argentine futbol, but let me tell the people that live in argentina, ie the ones who will pay money to see these games, want to see players from their teams play. theres a reason 25,000 showed up to a training session and all chanted "carrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiizo" in support of JP before the paraguay match... when messi and co. plays no ones name will be chanted. I'm not trying to be anti-Messi or anything I am just stating the facts. If you've ever been to a NT match in Argentina, you know that the crowd has no connection with the team. Meanwhile, when the local NT plays, there is always a great connection. Whether its Palermo or Ortega or Carrizo the people love the players.

Gago shouldn't be in the list. I
I never asked for Tevez or Aguero either. I understand their inclusion, but i'd prefer tevez never played for argentina again. he's an unclassy a$$hole

Looking at the official preliminary list, I can say that the point of the local NT was just for money and to give people in other provinces the chance to see the NT.

But you're right about the fans not having a connection with any of the players these days. Without even going to a NT match, just by watching them on television you can tell there's a real lack of connection. That's because no one is having a long enough career in Argentina to actually get the affection of the crowd.

You mention Ortega, Carrizo and Palermo... those players are icons (Carrizo is getting there) at their clubs. Heck, look at the backlash (alot from Boca fans) when Riquelme left the team in 2008. It was as if Boca fans had turned on Diego.

The hinchadas seemed to have died down I would say since Pekerman left, if not before. I want more players from the domestic team called-up. Why the hell was Stracqualursi not given a chance? The guy is huge and would give us presence in the box. Him over Diego Milito any day.

On form, Tevez and Aguero should be called-up (for me) no doubt about it. Gago should not be anywhere near the team.

Yea i agree at least 5-6 local players should be picked for every tournament. I know we have loads of talent in Europe but we do lack some positions in Europe and find better options in Argentina.

At CB there about 3 players playing in the local league that are better than the CBs we have in Europe and same goes for LB i know Batista likes Rojo so do i but i rather have him at CB and have someone like Rojas at LB. On to the midfielders the only legit midfielders in my opinion in Europe as DMs and CMs are Mascherano, Banega, Tino Costa. In my opinion Valeri, Yacob are more deserving than Biglia and Gago.

We also do have some interesting wingers in the local league like Juan Martinez that are deserving of a spot in the squad. Other players can also make a case for themselves.

If i was Batista and the way things are looking right now there is no way in hell would i leave out the big 3 from Velez and i would always have Pastore and Ricky Alvarez on my squad no matter what. Give Pastore that Iniesta role, Banega that Xavi role and let this team go at it.

Tim Vickery said this thing about the local players and having a "connection" with the fans. The story went something like, how majority of the people wanted to see more players from their country to get called up because they know a thing or two about passion. I believe it was Felipe Menezes, and the local side, wanted him to play for the NT because he was one of them, played in Brazil and knew about passion. As soon as he got sold to Benfica, the fans, said, "forget him, he is just another European player, he does not know about the passion, all he cares about his money". So one minute a player can be a hero at home, but as soon as he goes, and makes money, he does not know the passion. The young players get called move to Europe and the older players come back home. Shall we call Almeyda back to the team? How about Palermo? Or do what what Diego did, call up Otamendi and play in at RB... Call up Garcé, my favorite of all time was Schiavi, that worked out just perfect.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the likes of Traca, Ricky Alvarez or El Burrito Martinez but what can we do? Are there better options that Batista can call up? Sure, what coach does not? From our starting line-up, who really has not played at home besides Messi? Pipita played for River, Di Maria was canalla, Kun played a bit at home. Players get sold all the time, blame the clubs instead of pawning off players at such an early age. If you think our players in Europe do not have the passion, then that would mean the Argentines in the US should be referred as "el yanqui argentino" because they do not breathe the air of Argentina daily. Which is stupid, because I have primos that grew up and can go back home and fit in with the locals. If there are those that do not have this connection, I say tough, we live in 2011 and follow your national players via the computer or news papers. As a kid back home, I glued myself to the TV to watch Fiorentina games and see Bati play. I watched the likes of Crespo,Ortega,Veron,Piojo Lopez in the Serie A. I watched Redondo or read about his magic for Madrid.

Once again, there should be no excuse, and this "passion" non-sense, we are under the same banner. The passion will be there for the Copa in July, if those do not feel a connection, don't bother watching, and do not join the celebration when we hoist the trophy at the Monumental.

Perhaps I am not sufficiently nationalistic, but as far as I'm concerned you pick the best players you can for the Argentina NT regardless of where they play, be that Italy, Spain, Germany etc. If that means no players who play in the domestic Argentine league are selected then so be it.


Changing the subject, I'd like to see a front 3 of Di Maria, Mess and Aguero, much like the way Barca do, these 3 players are capable on interchanging positions.

I'd also like to see a midfield trio of Masch, Banega and Pastore.

Glad to see you take an open, objective position on Batista, Cosmos. As far as I'm concerned, I don't think he's the best coach on earth, but he has managed to make Argentina play the way it used to, and that in itself is a big achievement for me. He also managed to find a system that allows Messi to develop his skills.

I don't know if that's sufficient for winning titles, but I don't really see another coach (willing to accept the charge) that can guarantee them as well.

My verdict is out until I see the team play in a proper competition, i.e. the Copa, then we'll see.

I think Batista wants the team to play like Barca, whilst we have a front 3, Di Maria, Messi, Aguero that could replicate what Pedro and Villa do for Barca, we do not have an Iniesta and a Xavi (to be fair no one does) who basically pull the strings and run opposition teams ragged.

Wait and see is my motto at the moment.

I think he is a fraud and should be nowhere near coaching Argentina.

He has shown a worrying inability to change tactics when they are shown not to be working on the field.

He makes substitutions too slowly to react to changing circumstances.

He picks the wrong players and then because of his limited coaching experience has decided to copy the Barca model seeing as it is sucessful without understanding it's mechanics.

His 4-3-3 relies on 3 DM's forcing Messi to be creator and finisher all the time whereas if he played Pastore in there with Banega it would offer more in terms of ball retention and creativity.

Some of these selections are bizarre. Players should be picked on form and match sharpeness as well as their quality.

Insua ahead of Ansaldi for instance ? Gabriel and Diego Milito ? Valeri ahead of Alvarez ? No spot for Osvaldo or a Munoz even Lamela to blood the kids in tournament experience even if it just extends to a spot on the benches ?

Ansaldi for instance would also bring much needed pace into the back four.

I am worried seeing as he seems to be such a weak willed coach as well caving into popular opinion as opposed to a Bielsa. Will his slavish obsession with Barca extend to him playign Masche as a CB ? Madness if he does as the current midfield cannot hold onto the ball enough nor has Masche been tested by a quality tall striker like a Llorente.

For Checho's information there are other systems that can utilize Messi's abilities. All he needs to do is create space for him and place him in situations of danger. A 4-2-3-1 or a 4-5-1 are just as effective if utilized correctly with the right personell.

And with this seeming reliance on Messi +10 he should be exhorting the other players some of whom are not far off Leo in terms of ability to do more and not just pass to Leo and then hope something happens.

Infact as Messi is often double marked in matches why does he not work on the extra space to be capitalized upon or use Messi to drag the opposition defence out of position.

And setpieces defensively and attacking wise. Something needs to be done. They still look shaky and free kicks need a lot of work. Many games are now decided by these whether we like it or not but ever since Roman departed that attacking facet has been for the most part ineffective.

If he falls on his face a proper coach needs to come in. We all talk about Ferguson being this coaching genius yet Sabella with Estudiantes did a better job on Barca and were very unlucky to lose.

If only we had Bielsa now, his all out attack/pressure system coupled with our depth in front would be deadly.

how is what i'm saying being nationalistic? if anything, i'd say you wanting people to play for argentina based solely on where they were born is more nationalistic than wanting players from the local league.

Leon you probably have never lived in buenos aires (i mean no offense by this) but if you ever do you will understand just how important the clubs here are. it has nothing to do with being nationalist. it has to do with following a team week in week out from august through june then july rolls around and you're supposed to root for a bunch of random guys from all over the world?

my team has 1 player in it, and if he doesn't start i will be PISSED. Maidana should be in the list and so should Lamela. Maidana > Milito and Pareja Lamela > Enzo Perez. I have no idea what is nationalistic about that.

If you read spanish, go read the Velez boards and you'll see that many of their fans want argentina to lose because the coach overlooked all of their stars despite having what could turn out to be a record breaking double for them.

Racing fans i know are furious. Batista hinted all along that Pillud and Yacob would make it, when in fact neither did. In fact, you could argue Batista helped ruin Racing's season because Yacob got injured playing for the NT then after all that he didn't even make it. I know many racing fans also want Colombia that will have 2 racing players (Teo and Gio) to beat Argentina that will have none

The whole subject of the local NT and taking players from the clubs and training sessions and risking injury, and in some cases actually getting injured, only for 4 (Carrizo, Valeri, Monzon, Perez) to make it has rubbed many fans the wrong way.

i dont see how its nationalist in the slightest, if you are a fan or socio in my case, you want players from your team to make it. Maidana had to miss every monday and tuesday training for the last 3 months for what? for NOTHING... Lamela too had to train and then play with the NT just 3 days before the most important game of our season... FOR WHAT? NOTHING!!!! who knows how much better lamela could have played vs. olimpo if he hadn't had to travel and play so much in just a few days... If they had been in the Copa Squad it could be rationalized, but now it is just infuriating

This is why we are pissed and i want batista OUT!

Well prepare to be mad then. Lamela is going to the U20's. We can watch him there. I have no problem with Lamela going to Colombia instead of staying home. But does it matter? He will likely be out of River by the summer is over. I hope wrong, but everything looks that way.

Let them be mad, they can be like those bostero fans who sang "la seleccion, la seleccion se va a la ****, que los pario". That's on them.

Blame AFA, they are the ones that really set this up. Risky injuries and etc, how is this Batista's fault. If he has orders, what is going to do? In my opinion it's somewhat of a waste of time, but again, it's all about that money for the AFA. Who is going to go up against Don Julio?

Come on, really? I watched parts of that game and River was lucky not to lose. As I have said, Lamela is going to go to Colombia and after that probably off to Italy.

I am blaming the AFA. The AFA is the problem. Passarella had the balls to oppose the AFA and Grondona but no one bothered to join him but Maradona of all people. Batista is a puppet of Grondona. He does make many of his own decision, but he follows Grondona's guidelines. Something a real coach like Ramon or Gallego wouldn't have done

and if Lamela does go to Italy is it a good thing? Do you want argentine futbol to continue to be destroyed?? ( I don't think he will go tbh Passarella put 20 million euros on his head no one will pay that now)

Last 3 managers we have had, have been poor, no? Batista is better than Diego, but who wouldn't be? Basile, started well with the WCQ and etc, but fizzled down. Pekerman was a great manager, a single flaw cost us a chance to be in the semis. I have learned to look away now, I have accepted whatever we have.

How is Lamela going to Italy another part of Argentine futbol being destroyed? The passion is always going to be there, and again if you want to blame somebody blame the clubs. Can you imagine if River kept Falcao,Alexis Sacnehz(I believe he was there on loan) Lamela and co. I would love it, but if you have the chance to make more money, why not? Who hasn't moved their family for a better job or opportunity. I would milk it to the last cent. Step out and do not look at this as a fans perspective. Argentine futbol will be fine, I am not worried about it. Players will come through the ranks or pop out, out of nowhere. On paper, not too many teams in the world can match us if any. If we win the Copa, then I guess everything will be alright for having a team that is mainly based with players that play in Europe.

I just called my Dad and his Liver is Boiling!!! LMAO.. Where to Begin?

I've been saying this for the longest time. Same reason that people don't chant Messi's name. He's never played in Argentina.