Batista releases list for Spain friendly. Zanetti and Cambiasso are back.

I could certainly envision DAllesandro and Banega being capable of maintianing posssesion of the ball. I think Pastore and DAllesandro could have also done so AND provide the clinical passes into the box for Messi Dimaria and Milito/Higuain.

That's what has been missing IMO, the ability to hold the ball then provide the crisp pass into the box.

Veron was supposed to do that in SAfrica,and could not for whatever reason.

As long as Argentina play their game, they stand a better chance of winning than losing.

 

What game? we went from playing a 4-3-1-2 to a 4-4-2 to a 4-2-4 during the world cup in 18 months!

Batista is doing the right thing in my opinion focusing on the midfield changing the style of play and bringing a system that all Argentine superstars fit perfectly a 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3 where even Tevez, Lavezzi, Aguero fit perfectly and a holding midfield that will be very tough to breakthrough next step is Defense.

Fix those 2 problems then we might be talking about an actual TEAM.

 

On two levels here we need someone with imagination like Dalessandro,Pastore or Riquelme to set up whatever forwards we have.But this idea of three cincos hardly suggest that.
On the other hand please its a lot easier for Xavi and Messi against the defences of La Liga the grand majority of whom are inferior to Primera.Spain has a league with two superteams three more high quality and fifteen candidates for the nacional B.

 

What Barcelona have been doing and what Spain NT only recently started doing - railing against the notion that everything has to be a counter with "destroyers" replete midfield,and actualy possess the ball, maintaining it in the opposing half and waiting for/creating a scoring chance -is IMO, the "style" at which Argentina are most adept. '98 and '06. Neither spain nor Barcelona invented that style, however the world have them to thank so that this counter attack BS which i loathe and which has won various titles can be done away with and we can get back ot people playing some futbol.

Maradona was a tactitcal novice, and it showed. But, one thing i'll give him is the belief that Argentinos are futbol players, not CBs or FBs or CMs. He felt he could plug whomever into a particluar spot and that individual would succeed because he was an argentino who knew how to play the game anywhere. I admire that romantic notion, which is closer to being a truism in argentina then in England, for example.

 

Nor do the other players.

But yeah it's just easier to stop and look at Messi's situation only.

Regarding the Pastore situation, the problem with Batista was, in the U20WCQ in 2009, Batista called him but Huracán didn't allow him to go claiming to have the same rights of european clubs(Chelsea & Almeria) who didn't allow Di Santo and Pablo Piatti to come either, while it was Huracán's fault Batista claimed that if the players were indeedly willing to play for the national team they should push for their release with their clubs.

 

MMMMM I'm not going to argue that he gets great service at Barcelona but if that's the only way for him to score, then playing Messi is a tremendous waste of time.

 

Again if that's the case, why do we bother with him? It's a waste of a spot that could be given to someone who could better connect with the team.

 

Shhhhhhh you are speaking heresy!

 

If he thinks the only way Messi could score when by receiveing a good pass, he dont have any idea why Messi was voted as player of the year.

 

bottom line with messi - like any good forward - there is always a good midfielder behind them. that hasn't been the case since JRR left the team. veron was a jabroni. aimar showed up for one game and none of the youngsters have been given much of a chance yet.

CR7 has the same challenge when he plays for the Portugal NT - lack of midfielders on the NT make it hard for CR7 to be the same CR7 we saw at Man United and Real madrid.

players like pastore and banega need to get as many minutes as possible. it's good to see andres d'alesandro back in the picture but let's be realistic - how long can he last?

if pastore and banega struggle - that's good - that's the best way to learn and gain experience.

xavi had his share of struggles before he became the midfielder he is today; messi is going through his share since 2008.

if batista has beef with pastore b/c of the u20 world cup - then he is no better than maradona for his beef with higuain and other players he resents such as zanetti/cambiasso. but hopefully batista is better than that...

 

I've been following Barcelona for the past 9-10 years (and I personally consider them "my club") and I've seen all of Messi's games at the club and for Argentina. From his debut to present. With that said, no, I don't think that's why Messi was voted player as the year. Messi whether it be by coming off the bench or starting for Barcelona has been able to lead the team to victory when Barcelona needed him most. The amount of assists he's had in the past two seasons and the amount of goals he's had in the past two seasons are absolutely mind blowing. He's able to change the game in a split second. He's come off clutch for Barcelona countless times. At one point last season he scored Barcelona's last 10 goals in a row. His variation of goals, whether it be by receiving the ball in the box or by taking on countless players and scoring from outside the box are insane. It's not just his goal scoring but the amount of assists he had last season. His passing has vastly improved. That's why he's the best player in the world. It's his overall play. Passing, dribbling, goal scoring, coming up clutch for Barcelona, scoring in big games, etc...

The reason why I said what I said (about him not getting the same service in Argentina that he gets with Barcelona) is because NYC had said he was angry. I was just showing him that the goals he had scored in that game were not your typical "Messi goals" (taking on players all by himself and scoring), instead it was all assists while he was in the box.

I'm a huge Messi fan, but I can admit that the Messi we get with Argentina is not the same Messi that Barcelona gets. However, it's not for his lack of effort (atleast not recently). He's not Maradona and he shouldn't be. The game has changed so much that it's impossible to see another Maradona. Maradona was able to play in midfield and as a supporting striker. Messi is unable to play in midfield (central midfield where Maradona had him playing during the World Cup) because it's not his position. I'm not saying Messi needs a Xavi to do well, far from it. He just needs someone who's able to get the ball from midfield to him. You know, an ATTACKING midfielder (someone like Riquelme, Aimar, D'Alessandro, Pastore or Veron), something that was missing from our line-ups in the World Cup. Against Greece, when Pastore came on, Messi starting getting the ball near the box and had a shot that hit the post and if I'm not mistaken a shot that just went a bit wide of the net. Pastore is not Xavi and that proves my point.

People are always going to look for a scapegoat when things are not going well with the National Team. It was the case with Veron, Ortega, Riquelme and it's now the case with Messi. It's a TEAM game, the blame should not be put on one player in this case.

Barcelona has a system and they're doing well. Brazil has a system, they're doing well. Argentina does NOT have a system. It's no coincidence when there was a system (Pekerman and Basile up until Copa America along with Riquelme), Messi and the rest of the team were doing well and scoring goals. No system + no real midfield=You won't score goals and you won't do well.

Edit: Before anyone gets the wrong idea or anything, I've been supporting Argentina way before I started supporting Barcelona or anything like that.

 

I'm not scapegoating Messi, he's my fav player in the world today... I'm just saying if after 50 caps Messi failed to make much impact in national team, Argentina should try to use another player and see how it goes... they could always bring Messi's back anytime but at least if things goes well without him, they will have better idea what has been lacking in last few years & why Messi cant even find the net even against weaker opponent in last 2-3 years. His goals in copa was set up by Riquelme and his last goal in qualifier I think was against Columbia which was set up by Riquelme coupled with his trademark dribbling.

But he has been going way downhill since Riquelme's gone and cant even score against a weaker opponent. Just to reminds you too that, when Riquelme was still on the team, he was far more effective goalscorer than Messi ever was. Its not like Messi is losing his skill when he put on Argentina jersey, he just DONT have the confidence to do something extraordinary in NT... self confidence is important in any sport.

I never said I wanted Messi to be replace, only that if Argentina will drop him for 1-2 matches to try a new thing, I'm not against it.

 

messi didn't have a bad world cup but would have had a better world cup if he had a proper midfield behind him. in the world cup - messi played with 4 other forwards essentially (di maria, maxi, tevez, and higuain). masche was the only midfielder. i am not going to even count veron as he is a part time player...

now that banega/pastore will hopefully get minutes, argentina will hopefully be a possession team again.

i dont think you can just bench someone like messi; it's like portugal benching CR7 or england benching rooney. it just can't happen. the only way to get out of a scoring slump for them is to keep letting them play until they score.

 

Yes, but what if Argentina trying to use, let say... 4-4-2 with Aguero and Higuain upfront and Mascherano, Banega, Pastore, Dimaria behind them?

Messi & Tevez has been given more than enough time to do something... just like in Barcelona, Messi started as right winger in NT, and then in copa final and friendly against Brazil, Basile try to use him as front striker alongside Tevez and also did not work... finally he was place in the center and it's not working either.

You can say that he never get a good ball supply from midfield but I already mentioned that even with Riquelme behind him, Riquelme end up being the best goalscorer in NT not Lionel Messi... Messi still cant score that much. In Barcelona he would skip 1-3 players and place the ball to far corner and left his marker shaking their head. Messi is world player of the year! he's not a goal poucher who can only score when receiving a good pass

 

Messi has never played as a right winger for Barcelona and he certainly has never played as a right winger for Argentina. At Barcelona he plays as a forward on the right in a 4-3-3, it's not the same as a right winger.

During the entire Copa America Messi was played as a forward partnered with Crespo first and when Crespo was injured with Milito/Tevez later. Veron was played out on the right in the 4-3-1-2 that Basile likes to use.

 

When was the last time Messi played with Riquelme? It's been what two years? When did Messi find this amazing ability to score hat tricks freely? Only the past year. If you played them together now, or someone like Riquelme, then he would be scoring tons, or even during the world cup he would have scored tons.

 

if you have masche, banega, pastore and di maria - that would be as close as it gets to copying barcelona's style:

masche = busquets
pastore = xavi
banega = keita/ yaya toure
di maria = pedro/iniesta

with those 4 behind the forwards as you suggested should help argentina as a whole play better posssession style game and would do wonders for any combo of players up front messi/aguero; messi/tevez; messi/higuain; messi/milito;

 

Yes, there's no reason playing 3 forwards cause against a strong side, the midfield always getting outplayed and the 3 strikers wont even get the ball except if they retreat back to the midfield like what happen against Germany.

2 strikers are more than enough cause Argentina has so many sharp attacking players like Higuain, Di Maria, Aguero, Tevez, Pastore, Messi, Milito etc ...they're all capable of going forward and create the danger.

Myself cant wait to see Di Maria playing together with Higuain at Real Madrid, we shall see how Mourinho will get it worK... it should be interesting.

 

I really hope Di Maria can deliver straight away for Real, because with the depth of players they have and their attitude (get the best, if not performing throw them) he could also end up ********ing up his career.

 

Well, Mourinho is no fluke, he's a smart man and if Di Maria is part of his plan then he's going to be given a fair chances.... for now it looks quite promising..

http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/sports/201008/73637.php

Real Madrid had to come from a goal behind in their final pre-season warm-up game against a plucky Hercules but eventually ran out comfortable winners with Karim Benzema netting two either side of an Angel di Maria goal in the second half.

Jose Mourinho's new look Merengues side was without a number of key first team personnel and it showed in the early stages as they failed to get to grips with the game against their newly promoted hosts.

In fact a tame effort from Fernando Gago was the best Madrid could muster in the opening period and los Herculanos were fully deserving of their half time lead given the intensity of their effort.

The only goal of the half went to the hosts six minutes before the interval and it was a woeful giveaway from a defensive viewpoint. From a seemingly straightforward set piece veteran midfielder Sendoa was allowed to ghost into the 18 yard box unchallenged and got enough purchase on the inswinging delivery to guide it past Adan, who didn't exactly cover himself in glory challenging for the ball in the air.

Mourinho reacted by removing the inexperienced custodian at the break and replacing him with Jerzy Dudek in one of six half time substitutions for los Merengues.

Hercules coach Esteban Vigo opted to stagger his changes, making five switches in as many minutes, perhaps in a bid to disrupt Madrid's rhythm early in the second half.

Two men with supposedly contrasting futures at the Bernabeu, Mesut Oezil and Rafael Van der Vaart, alternated for Madrid as both sides continued to make changes.

Ten minutes after the restart Madrid were level as one of Mourinho's half time switches, Pedro Leon, made a fantastic run down the right and when his cross was headed clear to centre field German midfielder Sami Khedira lofted an exquisite ball over the top of the advancing Hercules defence to leave Benzema in acres of space and the French striker made no mistake, drilling a low drive to the corner of the net from 12 yards.

Madrid gradually took control of the tie and lead fifteen minutes from time as di Maria bursted clear of the Hercules rearguard, stepped one side of the advancing 'keeper and virtually strolled the ball into the net for a fine solo effort.

Six minutes later Benzema completed the victory firing home from 15 yards after a well timed pass from Esteban Granero.

Pedro Leon was needlessly sent off after the restart for a foul on Olivier Thomert but it proved a comfortable win for Madrid in the end with the likes of Leon, Khedira and Benzema giving coach Mourinho plenty of food for thought ahead of the season opener against Mallorca next weekend.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVQRhhsd_sA"]YouTube- Di Maria goal at 76th minute of match Hercules 1 - 2 Real Madrid 22/8/2010[/ame]

 

It is a retrogade step recalling Pupi and Cuchu.

We need to build long term not rely on veterans.

Does Checho think winning this game gets him the DT job. No thanks to him. If he has a grudge against Pastore he is no better than Diego.

Anyway once the Apertura is over either Borghu or Sabella get the job. Checho has screwed up the u20's several times.

 

call me a zanetti mark, but he'll probably still be the number 1 option for RB/LB over the next 4 years, only to get overlooked by the next garce/scaloni for 2014 (vegas indicates Paulo Ferrari will be "that guy" who makes the world cup team over Zanetti )

 

LOL You think Borghi is going to take over? Have you seen the bosteros play? The players signed by boca were at his request and they are still awful. These players were pretty good at their old clubs, but now in his new system, they are muertos. He's probably going to leave the club after they get beaten by Vélez this coming weekend. How can you propose him for the NT?

Sabella played 5 men in the back against Banfield. He has probably the best team in Argentina and goes to Banfield and plays a 5-4-1. Banfield. Not Brazil, Banfield. Is that the approach you want on the NT?

Ramon Diaz would be my choice. He's won everything as a player and coach.

Ferrari should be in the NT. He's easily been the best rightback in Argentina the last 4 years. Should have been there over Clemente and Otamendi. He's scored some incredible goals

 

Actually Paulo Ferrari is the guy being overlooked by every coach that takes over hes a flat out RB thats been on top of his game alongside Angeleri for the past 4 yrs.

On the other hand Borghi and Sabella? are you kidding me they havent gotten any results yet the guys who should be considered and looked at are Ramon Diaz and Angel Cappa! now thats how you coach football.

 

Yes he thinks because he was more or less told so.