More response from Barca: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26873708 I'd agree with above posters. Barca thinks the penalty is unjust, however they don't actually disprove that they are guilty of what they're being charged with. I personally think the penalty is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too steep, unless Barca have previously been warned. They should have gotten a slap on the wrist and a harshly worded letter!!!! [If this is being considered a first offense]
That is a good question actually. If the players in question are still at Barcelona, are they going to be forced to leave? They might be........................... And how does it affect other kids? Does Josh Pynadath at Real Madrid have a Euro passport, for instance? There had been talk of other kids like Xuxuh Hilton going abroad, but I don't think he has a Euro passport. The aforementioned Josh Perez comes to mind.....................
Ben is not mentioned in the complaint, at issue are seven Cameroonians, a Nigerian, a Guinean an Argentine and I am missing one or two more countries. All these kids just played against Arsenal in the youth champions league, which begs the question, what clubs took the complaint to FIFA back in November?
Here's the list: It's now more than a year since Fifa's president, Sepp Blatter, publicly backed the imposition of sanctions relating to six Barça players which prevented them from playing competitive games despite being registered and allowed to train with the club. The Koreans Lee Seung-woo, Paik Seung-ho and Jang Gyeol-hee, the French youngster Theo Chendri, the Nigerian Bobby Adekanye and the Cameroonian Patrice Sousia – all aged between 14 and 16 – are registered to different teams within the youth setup, with the last of these believed to have turned down lucrative moves to Chelsea and Liverpool last week to sign his first professional contract. Not that this means the other players, including Ben, aren't an issue as well.
If Ben has to return, could see him also possibly going to Chivas USA because of Kleiban (his former coach) being there.
Found a couple of foreign articles specifically naming Lederman as one of the 10 cases singled out by FIFA: http://www.businessghana.com/portal/sports/news.php?op=getNews&id=41039&news_cat_id=3 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/tr...barcelona-neue-messis-aus-suedkorea-1.1929000
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Barca has struggled with bad press lately in trnasfers and now youth recruitment which probably doesn't help their case given recent history. I don't know enough details to say if the allegations are true or not. That said, if Barca systematically and intentionally violated the rules, I understand the punishment. I think it will be reduced, but this would not be an isolated case (multiple players from various scouts all over the world), but rather a systematic team-endorsed approach to circumventing the rules. I too am curious how this would affect other teams. Barca can't be the only team that has done this.
I think most of us would agree with Wenger's comments on this (he's obviously talking within Europe): http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26883875 "The rule is quite simple, you cannot move the players before the age of 16 unless their parents move for professional reasons, so that of course creates a bit of a debate - do the parents move for professional reasons or not?" said Wenger. "In this case, Fifa has judged the parents moved for football reasons and that is why they were banned because they have not respected the rules." He added: "The rules need to be changed, because there is more competition now to get the young players, and you will always be in a debate as to why did the parents move? "There is more money in the game, so the parents will be tempted to give their young boys a chance to have a great career." [I think part of the reason for the rules..............as Wenger must now.............is to protect other UEFA nations and smaller clubs from the likes of Arsenal grabbing all the great young players from their neck of the woods. It's not FIFA and UEFAs job to just let Real Madrid, Bayern, and Chelsea run rampant. They're protecting clubs in Belgium and Croatia as well.]
Interesting take from Wenger. In retrospect, Messi was one of those 'illegal' gets for Barca. His dad moved wtih him and just ended up getting a job at the club as a custodian.
The Messi situation................and the much discussed Adu/Inter romance of the past, were prior to some of the existing rules coming into play. However, yes, its possible that Messi wouldn't have been able to move to Barca under the existing rules. He did have family in Catalonia, as well as the medical issue, that further complicated that case however...................................
I have a friend who's sister moved to Barcelona with her husband just so her son could get a chance to play for their academy. They didn't get any old job though, and I am sure they could cover that up if needed lol. Last I checked they were still there. US born too (the boy).
While I agree with and understand the rules it really does not address the true issue of so called agents exploiting poor young soccer players. Barcelona is not the problem. I have no specific information on the African kids at Barcelona but its a sad day when a child pursuing a dream presumably being educated on and off the field in a safe environment may now be sent home to a destitute existance in a dust filled shack being told those are just the rules. Its unfair that we are throwing the baby out with the bath water without looking at the specific interests of the players involved. Ben Lederman and his family took careful and deliberate consideration as a family and chose to pursue this dream. I would love for Fifa to find away for players with proper support to continue to fulfill those dreams only if it is done in a safe and supportive fashion while establishing severely punishable rules that truly address predatory 'agents' taking advantage of youth.
The more that is coming out the more that it looks like the ban will be upheld. It is nothing like the Chelsea case because the case with Chelsea only involved one club so Chelsea were able to pay off the one club who filed grievances. This case involves 10 players in a 12 month span. Now it looks like Spain's FA denied registration for these players and Barca went to the Catalonia FA to get these players registered. And Barca are not doing themselves any favors. They don't even seem to be denying that they broke rules their response is basically "we might have broken some rules but, the rules should not apply to us since we have such a great academy". Not to mention that the president and vice president of the club are talking about conspiracies. My guess Barca appeals, the ban gets delayed(which will allow them to sign Ter Stegen, new CB, etc), the ban gets upheld and Barca will serve the ban in 2015.
I don't think they are saying they don't apply to us because we are such a great academy, they are saying the rules are in place to ensure young children aren't exploited and let us explain the many steps we've taken to ensure the emotional, mental, educational, athletic needs are in fact being met. Choosing us as the only wrongdoer under the literal interpretation of the law is not ensuring equal protection of the law. To punish a few and ignore the majority of the rule breakers do not ensure equal protection under the law. By punishing Barcelona and ignoring all the other clubs who do a far worse job at ensuring the needs of youth are met is in fact not really caring if children are in fact being exploited through out the world. In fact by trying to use a scare tactic with one of the world's largest club may expedite the very thing you in part are trying to fix. In pressured reaction to not being severely punished by FIFA how many clubs will immediately sever ties with thousands of youth and dump them to the curb without any concern for their welfare.
But, there is a lot of assumptions here. There is the assumption that most clubs are breaking the rules regarding young players. There is the assumption that Barca is the only club being investigated. There is the assumption that the misdeeds of others are being ignored. There is the assumption that only Barca make sure the needs of their young players are being provided. There is 10 cases over a 12 month period so it is obvious that Barca did not take the rules seriously and that is why they are being punished. Considering FC Nantes received a similar ban for a case involving only one player you could argue that their punishment was lenient.
Sounds naive to think Barcelona is the only team who's doing this. I know for a fact others are doing it: http://bestplayerintheworld.com/2013/08/video-joshua-pynadath-at-real-madrid/ Safe to assume that they are in fact the only one being punished. I'll wait and apologize when Real Madrid gets punished accordingly. It sounds like you are a stickler for rules or are anti Barca because you haven't addressed the true spirit of the rule just the literal interpretation which doesn't address any of the actual issue of predatory 'agents'. Sounds like you'd easily issue a ticket to someone racing a family member to the emergency until he dies. 'Hey sorry, but you were speeding'
If it's true Ben Lederman is one of the 10 kids whom FIFA claims were illegally transferred, I would be interested to know why considering that he was only 11 (10?) when he went to La Masia and the FIFA regulations seem to cover players 12 and over. They clearly state that ITC (international transfer certificate) "isn't required for the age of 12 years" (Article 9), which means that movement of kids under 12 would not fall under the jurisdiction of the FIFA subcommittee which reviews every international transfer of minors. See this article for some relevant background: http://www.law.emory.edu/fileadmin/journals/eilr/25/25.1/Lembo.pdf
Lederman is not one of the players. There is 3 South Koreans, 2 players from Cameroon, a Nigerian player, a Paraguayan player, a Colombian player, an Argentinian player and supposedly a French player which does not make sense.
Where are you getting you info? I'm basing it on the ESPN article: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/13380?cc=5901 "According to FIFA's latest judgement, Barca have now broken these rules in 10 separate cases. The further four players named in the Spanish press are Japanese youngster Take Kubo, France’s Kayz Ruiz Atil, Guinean Abdoul Mazid Diallo and American Ben Lederman, who moved to Barcelona from California aged just 11 in 2011 along with his parents." They are the four in addition to the six who received official match bans in Feb 2013.
According to FIFA's latest judgement, Barca have now broken these rules in 10 separate cases. The further four players named in the Spanish press are Japanese youngster Take Kubo, France’s Kayz Ruiz Atil, Guinean Abdoul Mazid Diallo and American Ben Lederman, who moved to Barcelona from California aged just 11 in 2011 along with his parents.
I think you misinterpreted his post and are now turning to attacking the poster rather than the points he made. He simply said there were a lot of assumptions being made in your post he quoted. Which there were. And he brought up FC Nantes getting a similar punishment.
He typed the same assumption different ways and basically played the naive 'Devil's advocate' How do you know what they are doing. Then he made some assumptions of his own to make his argument better then ignored my core point no matter what the assumptions were. That's not me misinterpreting anything. Thanks for your input. I can handle my own debates.
I think they were part of FCB Escola, which is a separate entity and kind of an affiliate program distinct from La Masia / FCB. (see: http://www.fcbarcelona.com/football/fcbescola) Also a bit of fall-out, Lederman and the others under investigation will not be playing for Barcelona youth teams until further notice. Only 3 of the ten investigated remain at La Masia now. La FIFA ha sancionado al FC Barcelona por diez fichajes irregulares desde 2010 hasta hoy. De los diez, uno (Abdul) ya no milita en el club; seis fueron inhabilitados el pasado febrero de 2013 (Paik, Lee, Jang, Bobby, Patrice y Theo Chendri, aunque este último reapareció tras cumplir 16 años); y los otros tres (Ben Lederman, Take y Kais Ruiz) han podido seguir jugando con sus respectivos equipos sin ningún tipo de problema. Hasta este fin de semana. The remaining three have continued playing with their respective teams with no problem. Until this weekend. http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20140...man-take-kais-fifa-barcelona_54405502052.html