Ballon d'Or 2012 Thread...

I enjoy watching Messi. Whether he is better than Ronaldo or not, is up to opinion. I am of the opinion that they are both in a league of their own, and I'll wait until the end of each of their careers to judge. While Messi's scoring this season has been absolutely phenomenal and worthy of plenty of recognition, I can't help but remember this time last year a certain a player being bashed by many for "racking up meaningless goals" in attempts to devalue his Pichichi and record-breaking goalscoring. Not hearing much of that this time around, however...

 

Anyway, with Messi breaking the 50 goal barrier in La Liga and the 70 goal barrier in Europe, it's hard to imagine this award not going to him. Someone would have to have a Euros to make people forget all that, and it's not likely to happen.

Those numbers are like a Usain Bolt world record.

 

At this point it may seem so, but competitions like the Euro and the WC can do a lot to sway people's attention and choices.

 

Except that Messi's teammates this year have scored about the same number of goals as Ronaldo's teammates.

 

No man, Messi doesn't care about stats or records. He's helping Barca to cement 2nd position unlike Ronaldo who was racking up goals for selfishness last season.

 

forget stats
forget Messi's goals and assists in both la liga & the CL
on the field ronaldo is simply an inferior player with lower IQ
Messi's ball control and vision sets him 90 galaxies away from the opportunistic new age inzaghi
Ronaldo has a much better supporting cast than Messi...only reason why hes coming out with la liga

 

Really unfortunate what happens when people forget to take their medicine in the morning...

 

That's not true. It is you who cannot stand people who do not worship CR7.

I didn't say such. I've only stated that I haven't seen one post from you giving Messi credit. There is a lot he has done to deserve it.

What are those things, name them or list them? Let's see, put up or shut up.....

And who has Ronaldo played for? Man United and Real Madrid - #3 and #2 clubs in the last 5-6 years. Have you ever seen me attribute the things Ronaldo does because he has played for Man United and currently plays for Real Madrid?

I guess you haven't been watching too many Barca games. If you have, you would see how many chances Messi sets up for his teammates, but they miss them. If his teammates wont score, then Messi will score. He has to. His goals have carried the team this season. Pedro has been off form, Villa has been injured, Sanchez has his first season at the club, Fabregas stopped scoring in the last few months. Is not like Messi's teammates haven't had the chances to score.

I would agree that Barca's attack has been build around Messi. But that is a testament to his greatness and importance. That's the way it is. Still, goals are goals, right? I don't see you giving Messi any credit here.

You were overwhelmed? I'm not surprised....

What is this? A Ronaldo fanboy talking about penalties? The penalties still need to be scored when they are given. Don't forget that both players let their respective team down from the spot and as result we wont get the dream CL final between Barca and Real.

"Meaningless goals" but the player still deserves credit, don't you think? Last season I gave Ronaldo credit for scoring those goals at the end and winning the pichichi. Why can't you do the same for Messi now?!

Messi has those 5 more games because he has played in an European Supercup, Club World Chamionships and Copa del Rey. What, do you want him not to play in those game, just so he can play the same amount of games as Ronaldo?

See, you are just not capable of giving Messi any credit...for anything! Meanwhile, I have no problem giving Ronaldo credit for scoring a winning goal vs Barca, his goals leading to La Liga title, two beautiful goals vs Atletico Madrid recently and was giving him credit in the 2nd leg vs Bayern (for the two goals early in the game, one for the PK spot) until he missed his PK in the shoot-out. And if you see my posts elsewhere on the forum, you will see me being disappointed with Messi letting our team down vs Chelsea and Real M in one week. Are you capable of the same? No, you are not. You can't give Messi credit and you can't show disappointment with Ronaldo.

I don't have a problem with people not worshiping Messi. I have a problem with people who can't see past their Ronaldo fanboy-ism and give Messi credit when due.

 

Point taken. I personally gave Ronaldo credit last season. Let's see now all those Ronaldo fanboys who were defending their favorite player, give Messi credit for scoring 50 in La Liga and 72 overall. The interesting difference between Ronaldo last season and Messi this season, is the fact that Messi looks like will finish as the Champions League's top scorer for 4 year in a row (unless Mario Gomez goes crazy vs Chelsea and scores 2-3 goals in the final). Where is the credit from the Ronaldo fanboys?

And lastly, obviously goals at this stage of the season (this and last one) are "meaningless" when it comes to La Liga title or CL title, but the goals are "meaningful" for the players in their personal battle.

 

I give Messi all the credit in the world for his achievements that are truly astonishing but I don't think those stats put him ahead of Ronaldo in regards to whose been better this season. In regards to the Champions League, it is impressive, but let's not forget 5 of those goals came against a pathetic Bayer Leverkusen side, while Ronaldo sat out 2 games in the group stage (one being at home against a Dinamo Zagreb team that were pathetic themselves in this year's CL).
In regards to "meaningful" goals (and the reason people put Messi ahead of Ronaldo last year) was because of important goals, with Ronaldo having the all important goals to decide La Liga. Unfortunately for him, his 2 goals against Bayern weren't enough to save Real in the CL.
Ultimately, I think this and last season somewhat mirror one another, but with both players switching roles. Last year they were par on goals, with Ronaldo easily taking the Pichichi, and Messi taking the titles. This year, Ronaldo beats Messi to La Liga, and while he does have an absolutely amazing year, Messi takes the scoring titles.

Bottom line: These two are all-time legends. Anyone that tries to say otherwise is either too nostalgic, brain-dead, or a huge hater.

 

Yes, but Messi did it better on each side of the fence. I don't think anybody thinks Ronaldo isn't a great player, because his numbers prove he is. He just tends to come in second to Messi, which still makes him the best player in the world not named Messi.

For example, in the season when Messi doesn't win the big titles, but only has his individual scoring achievements, like Ronaldo last year, Messi's way of doing it is to break Gerd Muller's all time scoring record, and more obscure records all around the world. And he takes Pichichi with 50+ goals, at least ten more than Ronaldo's record year.

Ronaldo's triumphant title year, he gets the liga and falls out in the semi's of the CL, contributing to the loss with his missed PK (yes, even though he had the goals in the game itself).
Messi last year won the liga and the CL, and scored the winning goal in the CL final.

Messi just did it better both years, by a lot, which is kind of typical of their rivalry.

 

Good points. Another way to look at it.

 

Yeah totally agree with you here - they've done enough performance wise, it's gotta be one or the other - unless Pele's right and Neymar steals it at the finish

 

True, but Messi also sat out one game in the CL group-stage. So he only played 1 game more than Ronaldo, an inconsequential difference. You might call Bayer Leverkusen "pathetic", but every team Madrid faced in the CL this season was around that same level or worse until they got to the semis (meanwhile, Barca played Milan 4 times).

Hold on. "Easily"? They were neck-and-neck in the pichichi race until Messi was rested for the CL final and Ronaldo scored 9-10 goals after the title was decided. Kind of like what Messi is doing at the end of this season.

 

Some people here seem to only look at goals when comparing Messi and Cristiano this season and while Cristiano might not be "that far" alltho still many goals behind, he is lagging by far in the playmaking department.

The biggest argument pro Messi people can use and anti Messi people seem to always ignore is Messi's incredible ability to make chances for his teammates, and he is severely underrated in that department.

Lets just look at the statistics:

Most throughball passes 11/12

La Liga
1. Messi 55
2. Özil 20
3. Verdu 20

Serie A
1. Totti 39
2. Pirlo 33
3. Ibrahimovic 29

Premier League
1. Song 22
2. Silva 18
3. Modric 17

Bundesliga
1. Reus 15
2. Baier 13
3. Arango 12

Uefa Champions League
1. Messi 14
2. Fabregas 10
3. Kroos 10


There really is no doubt who is the best player in the world atm, and who the best player was this season.

In scoring it was Messi > CR >>> rest
In playmaking it was Messi >>>>>>>alot of players>>>CR
In dribbling past players which tends to be one of the biggest attributes a player can have it was Messi >>>> some others>>>CR
In other categories overall it was again Messi >>> rest in most of them at least.

How can some people seriously still argue this, Ronaldo fans or not, I just don't get it, its clear as day.

 

That team that made the CL quarter-finals, qualifying ahead of teams like Porto, Shakhtar, and Zenit, and then beating out Lyon? Yes, what about them?

 

Bayer beat both of this year's CL finalists this season but they are "pathetic" and APOEL are great?

APOEL did great for a small club, but they were still the weakest team in the quarterfinals.

 

You are right, the goalscoring stats are not enough. That's why if we look at other individual stats, such as creating chances, through balls, assists, successful dribbles, etc., we would see that Messi has even bigger advantage over Ronaldo. All Ronaldo has is La Liga title. And although his goals were important throughout the season (the most important goals being the ones against Atletico Madrid and Barca recently), they weren't the only ones. Benzema and Higuain also scored important goals, Ozil created many of these important goals for all of them. Di Maria also created his fair share as well. Compare Ronaldo's help to that of Messi in terms of goals and assists.

Also, as pointed by gmonn, Messi did and won more last season than Ronaldo did this season. And Messi did more this season than Ronaldo did last season. In both cases when the situations were reversed - one player playing for titles, the other one for individual award.

Look, I agree that there is no doubt that these two players are the best and one of them will win Ballon D'or, unless someone explodes big at the Euros. Individually, Messi has had better season when we look at stats. But it could be said that Ronaldo has a tiny advantage because of winning La Liga. Then again, in 2010 Sneijder won more trophies than Messi, but the latter had better individual season.

At the end of the day (or in this case, the year), both Ronaldo and Messi deserve the award. This season the race between the two players is the closest (at the moment, before the Euros) it has ever been.

 

C'mon! You can't seriously tell me that you believe Apoel to be better team than Bayer?!

 

spot on dude i'll have to rep you

 

Woah, woah, everyone hit the brakes. I never said APOEL was better than Bayer. I think they are underestimated, but I don't think they're better than Bayer. When I called Bayer pathetic, I meant they were pathetic in that game as would any team that loses a game 7-1 in the Champions League knockout stage (or group stage for that matter).