Assessment problems

Discussion in 'Referee' started by CKRef22, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. socref79

    socref79 Member

    Apr 10, 2007
  2. blueboy

    blueboy Member

    Oct 26, 2000


    Didn't he complain to US Soccer? If not, he should and provide all details.
     
  3. grasskamper

    grasskamper Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Based on surface research it appears our boy from the Columbia Valley in WA did receive his Grade 6 badge and likely lost the digits on one or both hands (reason he has been absent) which would explain the mercenary's recent absence from these airwaves! Best of luck and may you live a long and quiet life in the shadows.....
     
  4. CKRef22

    CKRef22 Member

    Oct 10, 2011
    Washington state
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He did not receive the badge, and is not from Columbia Valley.
     
  5. grasskamper

    grasskamper Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Then I suggest your "friend" quit advertising himself on the public blogsphere/the WEB as such: "I am one of 100 referees currently at the rank of Grade 6 out of over 4000."
     
  6. Elizondo

    Elizondo Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    USA
  7. grasskamper

    grasskamper Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    :unsure::unsure::unsure:
     
  8. CKRef22

    CKRef22 Member

    Oct 10, 2011
    Washington state
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Better?
     
  9. grasskamper

    grasskamper Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Better?
     
  10. CKRef22

    CKRef22 Member

    Oct 10, 2011
    Washington state
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I told him to change it, and he did. He made that profile right after he passed the final assessment and never logged on since, or at least that's what he said. So he has changed it now per my request, and thanks for bringing that to my attention.
     
  11. Chas (Psyatika)

    Oct 6, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    For what it's worth, this phrase still shows up on Google searches, on a horribly written linkedin profile, with what has to be the most hilarious description of the duties of a referee assignor EVER.
    I have a new-found respect for those of you who have to spend any amount of time reading resumes!
     
    nsa repped this.
  12. themercenary

    themercenary New Member

    Feb 24, 2013
  13. oops

    oops New Member

    Jul 25, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    My thought is that it is possible that the game was reviewed on video? maybe after the fact they noticed something should of been differently? Does anyone know if you can actually go into the website and change a score of an assessment if you arent the one who wrote the original? I do know that the requirements have changed with assessments and it seems that he should just put this behind him and work some more games and focus on passing those. You have to have a Portfolio for the committee to review, so get as many as you can on the system and your portfolio.
     
  14. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look, there were no winners in this mess. The state acted poorly and the referee was a jerk. It doesn't do much good to rehash all of this.
     
  15. Lefelee

    Lefelee New Member

    Feb 26, 2015
    I am a referee currently trying to get a Grade 6 upgrade. In a gamewith a state assessor some days ago, at a higher level than what I am used to officiating, with one team that has been known to cause trouble in the past, I personally felt that things went fine. I correctly cautioned simulation, I kept the gam under full control, my acceptance was good, even from the "unruly" side despite them losing while receiving several cautions and one second yellow (the other side had no cards).

    Our state has from this season adopted a FIFA-style assessment form with a grade from 6-9 where 8.0 or above is a passing mark (sure many of you are familiar with this).

    This assessor awarded me a 7.9, a failing mark, because of a "crucial error". This crucial error was not sending off a player with a second yellow card because of what he described as a "deliberate handling". This particular handling was committed in an aeral challenge in midfield, without any promising attack being stopped. When i received the report I became quite upset, especially considering that I based my decision not to caution the player on what I have been told in clinics and previous assessments, the handling must be deliberate in order to be punishable with a free kick, a yellow card is usually not necessary, apart from when a promising attack or a shot on goal is stopped.

    What makes me even more angry is that assessments are just a huge lottery. I myself have seen games where a strict assessor could easily have failed the referee - missed penalties, red cards, poor control, but where the referee passes with flying colors as the assessor trusts the referee's judgement. Some referees seem to be able to do whatever they want and still pass assessments, while others have to be perfect to pass. This is kind of ruining the pleasure I get from reffing...

    How and to whom can I voice my concerns without sounding like a bitter whiner?
     
    Chas (Psyatika) repped this.
  16. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's gonna be really hard to do.

    I think the fact of the matter is, there are some lousy assessors out there. You might get stuck with one who fails you when you deserve to pass. It can happen.

    But, you know, it's all part of the game, the same way that you might be assigned a game between two great, evenly matched, high-temperature teams, and end up with a 5-0 non-rateable game; the same way that you may get stuck in a game with some extremely difficult situation that causes you to fail, while others who didn't have to face that situation pass; the same way that a normally competent and fair assessor may simply see or judge something incorrectly and punish you for it.

    But complaining isn't really going to do you any good, because for every referee who was wrongly failed, there are 10 who think they were wrongly failed, but in actuality deserved to fail. You'e better off biting your tongue and not gaining a bad reputation among the higher-ups.

    So my advice would be to try again, be polite and kind to the assessor (hopefully somebody different this time), and go out and do your best.
     
    Chas (Psyatika) and GoDawgsGo repped this.
  17. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    To start, the someone isn't an online forum.

    If you just want to vent, talk to a good friend. Then ask yourself what you want to achieve; do you believe that the score will change if you "escalate" the issue? Sort of think like a coach would when debating whether to accept a tough result from a referee versus protesting. The resource to escalate through would likely be your SRA or, if you have one, a director of upgrades. In other words, the SRC.

    Like many things in life, there is some subjectivity in assessments. That is one reason why you are usually required to have more than one assessment. It is also the same concern I get from people who don't get the promotion they wanted or that new job -- it's how the cookie crumbles, my friend. Dust it off, learn, and try again.
     
    Chas (Psyatika) and GoDawgsGo repped this.
  18. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope this doesn't discourage you, having been where you are I can't stress how accurate your statement is, and exactly how accurate
    is.

    Does it suck, yes. Do you want to be a 6? Then get back out there and pass. Talk to your mentor and go over the assessment feedback. Learn from it what you can, forget the rest (hard to do I know) and GO PASS your next one!!
     
    Law5 and Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  19. Lefelee

    Lefelee New Member

    Feb 26, 2015
    Thanks for your feedback guys. What bothers me the most is not that I failed, but the assessor's interpretation of my call. I can think of several other assessors, both state and others who would agree 100% with my call, and where I would actually be at the risk of failing had I made the call this assessor wanted.

    I must say I get really insecure in regards to my refereeing, particularly when there is an assessor present. I can imagine my next assessed match will be extremely difficult as I'll be afraid of the assessor's interpretations...
     
  20. NW Referee

    NW Referee Member

    Jun 25, 2008
    Washington
    The one thing that caught my eye from your post is the sentence that I have bolded above.

    It has been my experience that referees may have difficulty doing a higher level match for the first time when it is an assessment match. I would recommend talking to your assignors so that you can get some match experience at this higher level before you are assessed in a match of this level. :)

    And as others have said, we can't really help you except to provide moral support and to listen to you vent. Good luck in your future matches.
     
    Law5 repped this.
  21. OhRef

    OhRef Member

    May 22, 2006
    Use this as a learning experience.
    You state you were doing a game at a higher level. This will be the level you are expected to do (or higher) as an upper level referee. There are things that happen in these matches you may or may not be used to seeing. Your assessor saw the handling as deliberate (at this game level), you, did not. It is quite possible the assessor was correct. The players at the upper level will test the official to see what they can get away with.
    Ask you assignor for more higher level matches. Stretch your comfort zone. Pay attention to what players are getting away with. Keep working toward your goal and you will get there.

    IMO I would ask for the most difficult assessor there is in the area. That way when you get your passing score you will know you have earned it.
    Good luck
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  22. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's crappy is getting failed by a 10th of a point. WTF is that?
     
  23. Chas (Psyatika)

    Oct 6, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Is it possible that the assessor knew this, and weighed this into his consideration? I get the impression that upgrade assessments aren't necessarily about that particular game, but the overarching question: "Is this referee ready to be at this level?" Can you confidently say that, after 1 game of experience at the "state referee level" of play (which should mean, "the highest level of play available in your state"), that you are now a State Referee?

    Yes, the assessor needed to document specifics about that game in order to give you your score, but ultimately, he probably felt that you are simply too new/inexperienced at that level. It really isn't fair to the other State Referees to just throw you on the list along with the guys who put their time in and earned it, simply because "things went fine" that one time you actually tried a game at that level. It's like signing for the Ottawa Fury, getting an assist on your debut, and demanding a transfer to Barcelona.

    Your best approach might be to continue pushing yourself with "state referee level" games, earn a reputation for handling those games well, and then make it official with an upgrade. From what I've been told by many people, you don't get the upgrade and then become a Grade 6 (or 7, or 5, etc). You become a Grade 6, and then get the upgrade. In other words, you're already at that level, but they're just waiting for you to request the upgrade so they can hand you the badge that you clearly deserve.

    Show the powers-that-be that you're willing to earn that badge.
     
  24. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Being a State Assessor myself, I have to agree with virtually everything that others have posted, including the part about there being some "crappy" assessors.

    I would add that assessors should have as their primary purpose helping you to get better. With good reason, in Sweden the title is not "assessor," but "match instructor." That does mean that sometimes what they tell you shouldn't be taken as Gospel. It's advice, but it is advice coming from someone who's been there themselves, because you can't become a State Assessor without having been a State Referee first. Based on your comments about this having been a game above your regular level and feeling insecure when there is an assessor watching, I'm not surprised that you're being told that you need to project more self confidence. "Sometimes wrong but never in doubt."

    Obviously, I didn't see the handling. Just consider the possibility that although, yes, most handling does not also need a caution, in the assessor's experienced opinion, this one was one that did need a caution.

    Like teachers, some assessors are tough assessors. If you pass, you've earned it. Some are easy. Do you want an easy assessor so he'll say you can upgrade? Or do you want a tough assessor so you will learn something?
     
  25. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Why are you getting assessed on a game that's a higher lever than you're used to officiating?
    Yes, and I think that people are politely skirting around the elephant in the room here...he probably shouldn't have passed the assessment. He's reffing a level that he's not used to, and he's obviously not comfortable with the assessor there. It's entirely possible that the assessor simply thought he shouldn't pass, and found an easy way to objectively justify it.
    In the old days he could have just said, "I don't think you're ready yet," now, it's about the numbers on the form.
     

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