Not a lecture, I was just stating what the correct answer for a referee is. The part that bothers me is the giving out of State badges. I want that to be published and addressed because it's ridiculous.
Mr. (name struck) - Thanks - it sounds like you engaged a lawyer at the right time. The main reason I asked was b/c I am trying to understand why the SDA responded as he did. One thing that you need to keep in mind as you work through this is how is my action going to be received or perceived. On the field, we are always asked if we got something for a card we gave or could we have anticipated or prevented an action by doing something earlier. I would also caution you to not always assume that others actions are drive by animus or cynicism. Sometimes delays in response can have simple explanations. Most referee administrators I know have full time jobs and lives outside of soccer and responses to soccer inquiries that require further inquiry or consultation on their part are secondary to their reapinsibilities to their jobs and families. So the lesson here is don't let your own cynicism cloud or color your actions. Take that deep breath and think through each step. Based soley on what you describe, I would focus your efforts on filing a complaint with the state association against the SRA and against the SDA. Follow the process and dot all of your I's and cross your t's and know that you will likely need to appeal to US Soccer. Good luck!
It was a really dumb matter. It was the first time really ever going outside of my community and understanding there was a lot more out there then just a random referee getting paid to do some random game in the area you live. I was actually by the SRA how much I could learn from this guy and how great he was all I knew was that he was some supposed big shot so I took it see what I could learn I literally not to long before doing that game just realized that I was a grade 8 and that there was a ladder process. I would have accepted a punishment for leaving the game but I don't think they even charged me the game fee but instead decided to pay for doing half a game. I think the only reason I wasn't punished or fined for leaving the game was because the coaches ended up writing reviews on both teams and the other AR actually vouched for me at the time.
Let's refrain from noting the name of the poster. This is a hot topic item and I would like to protect the privacy of individuals posting on this form.
Lord, I hope not. Dirty linen and all that. As oddly entertaining as it was, I hope that the administrators and the referee can find a way to resolve this privately.
Hey! Given your avatar I expected that update as a tweet via twitter. Knock it off. (There, I made a post on this thread after all...)
Erm...that's a magpie. We steal shiny stuff. Except for football trophies. Haven't managed that since 1969.
I'll give an update when more information has been either confirmed or presented =) for now the process takes time especially if I am to undertake the appeal route.
Agree with most of this. Fighting this will get you nowhere. And the actions you have taken here - on a public board - tells me they were right to hold you back. You need to mature a bit more.
Ju just want to clarify your logic that blasting people publicly is a clear sign of immaturity... So when a politician or a person voicing for a group speaks out against that by your definition is immature? Last I check politicians use public forums as well as stages to blast other people of power. Also last I checked USSF says nothing about off the field activity for being criteria for upgrading nor state of mind. You have your opinion sir and I have mine I'm just more willing to fight for what I believe more so than you is all. Btw small update filing for appeal to WYSA on several grounds based on USSF certification requirements, bylaws, ethics codes, and assessment criterias. Once turned it I have 40 days max to wait for a response. I will update on these details afterwards sorry for the broad details for now. Side detail is they tried having 3 of my peers through various communication to pressure me through semi-hidden threat not to appeal. If they weren't scared of the appeal why bother tryin to have my peers pressure me?
For some reason, I decided to read this thread. All I can say is one word: STUNNING. And not for the reason you think. I'm amazed at my age that a person would put this much information about themselves on a public forum. Without knowing anything (or caring) about the process, there is NO WAY you are going to get the necessary upgrade in that state. (And probably for the right reason, albeit, done in the wrong fashion) You actually left a game?
There are a couple of reasons that the Powers that Be in your story are trying to get a back-channel communication to you. I'll list several potential reasons without any judgement as to probabilities of which one is correct. Your interpretation is right, they are scared They feel confident that they will win, but they are busy individuals who have better things to do than waste time on an appeal. Your friends/colleagues are trying to help you out (as an analogy, think of one of your buddies trying to warn you about that hot brunette in the corner due to his personal experience with her) The Powers that Be are attempting to settle this amicably so that there are not craters around the already burnt bridges Misinterpretation of what your colleagues have said to yuo. I don't know which option is applicable (several could be in play), but there is more than one reason that is plausible for the actions taken.
I'd add another: 2.5. They are confident they will win, or at least are reasonably comfortable with their decisions to date, but they don't want to incur legal expenses to prove their case. Which brings up what I think is an important point - if you cost them money to win your case you will likely still lose in the long run. People do not like losing money, especially when they think they are justified in their conduct. You might be able to force the upgrade issue due to the changed assessment but you can't force them to give you assignments afterward. Or give you a passing score on a maintenance assessment. I understand your frustration and your desire to force the committee to change its decision in your favor, but a win that involves paid legal counsel may turn out to be a Phyrric victory. Best of luck to you.
Agreed. As an assignor (very low level Sunday travel and Saturday morning kiddie ball for my school district league), I don't want to deal with referees who create problems. I will deal with those refs when I'm so far down my list that the only assigning criteria I can use to justify assigning that ref is the ref has: Certification A pulse To me, a "problem" ref is someone who needlessly pisses off coaches, or creates escalated situations by their personality after repeated counseling/mentoring attempts, or does not show up for games on time or in uniform etc. These are "minor" problems in the scheme of things, but as a volunteer helping out the local club, I have better things to do with my time. If a ref ever forced me to spend more money than it costs for a cup of coffee and a donut for an 8:00 AM mentoring session, that ref is going on my "problem" list for a long, long time.
If you pursue this, please be aware that much of what used to be in the admin handbook was "guidelines", not "rules". Makes a difference!
Sometimes people need to stand up for what is right! Where would our country be if people were meek and mild and didn't fight the establishment? Of course there can be a personal sacrifice in this. To the mercenary, I wish you luck. Fight the good fight.
This does not sound like a good fight at all. Have any of these parties EVER met face to face? Or has it all been done electronically? You can stand up for what's right IF you are actually right.
That's your limit, and certainly your right, but is it in the best interest of the referee? Consider this: as a newly minted young referee, at 16, I was not fortunate enough to live in an area that had mentors to guide me through development. I would easily classify myself as one of your "problem" guys. I created a ton on conflicts with the way I handled issues because I didn't have anyone that taught me any better. I was given a badge, whistle, and told good luck. It took several years of working through complaints, red cards, game reports, and moving around with the military to finally be seen by someone who pulled me aside and corrected the way I officiated. That man was Joe Tichy out of Georgia, and I'm very thankful that he saw some promise in a misguided young man.
To be fair, although as has been pointed out, much of this problem has been of the referee's own making, it was not proper retroactively to change an assessment result to prevent his upgrade. I think he is "right" in this aspect. But I agree that in the long run, even if he gets his upgrade, he will likely still face more problems with annual re-certs, getting games etc. If he deems it to be worth it, it's up to him. PH
If the state organization did not want this referee to be upgraded, they could have used other means to do so from the beginning. But when there are quantitative measures that lead to upgrades, i.e. box-checking, (kind of like collecting all the separate credits needed to graduate from college), it can be difficult. The alternative, or additional criterion could be some sort of qualitative evaluation, but that also has problems. In particular when someone who is a competent referee but who is disliked by someone in power for all kinds of reasons. Everyone in this business knows of cases like that in many states, and other referee organizations. Probably some more effort should be placed in introductory clinics and 7 and 8 level annuals to include the political aspects of joining the referee community, as well as the technical training items. It can be done by informal mentoring, as socref79 just pointed out, but there is not always such a person who comes along. PH PH
Exactly it matters who is judging. To a lot of people Occupy Wall Street is wrong in almost everything they do. To others though, they're a beacon of light in a very gray and desolate landscape.