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Discussion in 'Colorado Supporters Clubs' started by ringshot, May 7, 2008.
FYP and how is that a second one???
Can you two see how your behavior on here does not help with eitherr one of your causes?
Why does this need to be done in public? Get in a PM war all you want, but hell, there WAS an attempt to have a meaningfull discussion.
NOW it's a peeing contest and it sounds like two whining kids.
You two do not celebrate this game the way the other does and that's fine. But we need to act like a solid fan base in public in order to give the FO as little ammunition as possible to use against us.
Remember the saying, "I may not like what you are saying but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
The parallel here is that we all celebrate the game a different way and ALL ways (within the rules we are given) are okay. But we must not become devided over these issues or we will constantly be devided to the point of obscurity. Look at what happened to the Green Men or the River Rats. Look at what almost happened to the C-Firm. Outlasting an opponant isn't always the best strategy because at the end of the day only you will be left holding the flag. We don't want just you, we want as many as possible to help hold the banner.
Good leaders know how to follow at times. If either of you consider yourselves to be a leader in your perspective group then try to learn how to be confrontational without being combative. Learn how to choose your fights and where.
If either of you are here for the players and the game then make this about them and the game, not about your differences with each other.
Neither one of you is going to backdown, but both of you can do the right thing.
Weather really isn't an issue here. It's like that just about every day.
So then do people just not care? Is the team poorly marketed? Or, has the Front Office's position of no swearing and being heavy handed with security taken away any traction that a supporters club could ever hope to provide?
It's really a damn shame.
I just don't understand the number problems either. We have already sold 1,300 of the 2,000 season tickets in the Sons of Ben section and we are 2 years away from playing. Of course, the owners have worked with us very closely. We will have all four sections behind the goal on the river end.
I know the team is new and that can explain some of the bump in our numbers, but a business with a good plan and good customer service should build it's base over time, not erode it. It seems this scolding parent-problem child relationship is being driven either by nervous Nellys in the FO or they are listening to a vocal minority of staunch religious/moralists. I mean to be fair, supporters numbers are low and could be part of the reason why they don't feel they have to consider you. It also seems like there is a lot of division for such a small group.
Get your shit together. You have an attractive stadium and Christian Gomez leading a vastly improved team. Build your numbers and become vocal about your mistreatment.
Oh, and don't put your underwear in your shirt drawer.
The reason the NCC came about was because people wanted to do more in the stadium without all the other distractions that happen outside of it. They wanted to more heavily focus on just one of those three points I laid out. If we had a structure better situated so that people can focus on one aspect rather than several, we could accommodate and fix the problem rather than wrestling on broken glass.
but are people willing to accomodate??? Thats the real question
Quinn, Im pleased to see you got it. Honestly thanks! That is why the NCC was formed, to provide a more chaotic atmosphere.
Oh, this is great. The only group more annoying than TFC fans is trying to lecture us. After causing disturbances with the Revs fans at MLS Cup, disrespecting the anthem (IMO), and then (reportedly) being warned that hey were getting out of hand at the MLS Draft the SOB's think they have the high horse in this debate?
Go away and come back after 12 seasons of failure, then we can talk.
Wanna know my guess?
Ok, people will sometimes say how teams like, say, Columbus, should draw better because they are the only game in town. There is no MLB competition in the city, etc. Well, have you ever thought about the kind of people who live out here? What they like to do, etc? And have you ever thought about the stuff there is to do here? So, lets break it down. You are in a place where they like to tout more annual sunshine than Miami or San Diego. Within a 30-60 minute drive from downtown you can go mountain biking, hiking, camping, rafting, climbing, kayaking, four wheeling, and so on and so forth. I'm pretty sure I could find a place and go backcountry snowboarding this weekend. There is really a lot of competition here, I think. Add to that the fact that when you look at the history of the team, well, it seems to be pretty freaking mediocre at best. The current coach is known to play very boring, unattractive soccer. I mean, I'm not sure they averaged a goal a game even last season. Don't really think that all that is a recipe for drawing large, consistent crowds, ya know?
Disrespecting the anthem? Ummm, never. I'm going to need clarfication on that.
Also, I take exception to the blame game. Revs fans threw bottles at us, not to say that some of our members weren't responsible for the response to that, and Red Bull fans were the ones who were warned at the draft.
Believe me, I am not throwing stones. We are new and don't have 12 years of apathy and results to overcome.
I am on the side of the Colorado supporters groups in this and was surprised that you are lectured, on a message board, by a member of your team's front office.
Most major league franchises have to compete for entertainment dollars. My question is what is your team doing to give it an advantage in a competitive market? When the Philly team starts, it will have to compete with a baseball team with a 127 year history, that is winning more than losing (except against the Rockies), in the fall they compete with the region's favorite team, the Eagles, they will also share summer entertainment dollars with folks going to the beach instead of staying at home, and women's soccer.
And I know how nice it is, my family is originally from Trinidad.
When you only post twice a week, you miss all the fun stuff.
To the original question:
On the final ledger, I like the move to 100. I could hear us on the Altitude replay loud and clear (the wife could make out individual chants, and she has horrible hearing), and based on what I've seen/heard from others, the sound is going better all over the stadium - which should be the most important consideration.
As I stated elsewhere, there must have been a huge communication breakdown. From my view, only us and Marcus knew about the move. Teddy suggested a sign at the top of the section, I (and I'm sure hundreds of others) have suggested that Box Office people reactively inform people getting tickets in Section 100/101/any place else within earshot. If I can remember to ID a kid at Gamestop when he buys Grand Theft Auto IV, then a window pilot can remember this one.
Streamers is easy to figure out: just don't aim at players. Lay it up short like a golf chip. The jersey banner, I think I understand: the upside down thing was cute once. Messages sent and recieved. Smokebombs: I get what RFO is saying, but if it's so bad, why are images of us with red smoke displayed all over the place? Language: "Wings of an Eagle" once per half only. (it's Excessive language, like persistent infringment). The "Dick's" chant, though, must be allowed. It's the name of the park, after all.
NCC/C-Firm thing: I still am a member of C-Firm because I want to work with the FO and secure our rights as a section, and also for stability. It's not because I think one group is superior per se, but rather what is in the best interests of Sec.100 as a whole. So, NCC, Please, Christ, don't move to 114 or anywhere else. If security can split us up physically, we'll be more "managable" in their eyes.
If we really, really, really, really want total freedom of speech/action like they have in Toronto and DC (and like I'd be cool with), there's only one option: Grow. Grow to three sections. Solidify 100, Take over 101, Invade 102. Link up with Class VI (who won't complain about our antics). As we are right now, we're a bit fragile. If we're at two or more sections, we can't be thrown out.
Bryan76, it is obviously a multi-pronged issue but I think some of the biggest have been highlighted.
1) Competition from other sports. Denver is a sports town with teams from MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, Arena Football, Indoor Lax, Outdoor Lax, minor league NBA, minor league NHL. There is a lot of competition for sports dollars. The population of the Colorado Front Range is roughly 3.6 million people. So all those teams are competing for money from 3.6 million people, with 600,000 of those over 50 miles away.
2) Own Goal Hat-Trick brought up the fact that many people prefer outdoor activities as opposed to watching pro sports.
3) Years of medocrity. The team hasn't finished higher then 3rd in the western conference during the regular season...ever. Sure they've made the finals for the conference and once the league but they haven't won a thing other then the conference in the playoffs once. Over the 12+ years would be fans have been turned away because they get bored with seeing a losing, uninspired product on the field. I can't even count how many people I've brought to games hoping to turn them onto the sport/team. Now if I ask the response is usually, "not if they're going to suck" or something similar. I don't ask anymore.
4) Fans have been trying to put together good supporters groups for years and the club has given them a luke warm response. There has never seemed to be a real effort by the club to market to the type of fan who wants a supporters club type atmosphere. In the past the club has marketed more towards groups of school kids and youth soccer clubs. Those groups seem to get better deals and treatment. In recent time the club has taken a better attitude towards supporter groups but there are still the obvious growing pains.
That's my view of things anyway.
Road Trips are now being handled by 2 CVIers and 1 C-Firmer. So this is already integrated.
Tailgates are split between CVI and C-Firm.
This is going to sound arrogant and maybe piss some off - it's not meant to at all ...
Why not combine the the tailgates - let CVI do what they are doing already - providing grill/hotdogs/sodas/plates/utensils/kegs/cups and have C-Firm join in on it with one big tailgate with those special apperances from Nate and Doug???
I still don't understand the split - one tailgate - one place for supporters - one place to recruit - and inside the stadium there is a group for you: CVI, C-Firm, NCC
The biggest thing the team could have done from day 1 is win. However, as part of AEG the Colorado market was never loved the way LA was. We didn't get any special treatment or players. You also have to consider the market's population. Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington has 5.8 million people, nearly double what we have.
I couldn't agree more. It would be so much better to be able to advertise one, huge SUPPORTER'S GROUP TAILGATE before every match.
As it is now, when I bring new people to the tailgate, they don't even realize they are standing amidst two (three??) different tailgates.
I think it could do wonders to help us all grow if we combined the tailgates into one coordinated event.
As far as I was always concerned, the tailgates are meant to be integrated. The NCC and C Firm always eat the food, it is you and C VI that refuse to get with the program. I even sent you yourself a PM last week to let you know that we would be cooking breakfast from 930 to noon... Was this information distributed correctly on your part? seems like a no... even on your website it seemed as if you didn't get it. Anouncing that the tailgate wouldn't start til 1100, asking your members to bring all bring a dish, and not mentioning our food we were providing...
So if you wanna understand the split better, ask what you yourself can do about it, or what you haven't done already...
No offence to CVI... but they ALWAYS start their tailgates 2 hours before the game. The Firm starts ours all early because thats what we decide on. We have no set time that we start, but we are a bunch of crazies that like to hang out for endless hours before the game. CVI just does it a bit different.
The first tailgate of the season when we ALL joined tailgates was awesome! We need that all the time
Nate - you don't know your Colorado Supporter History apparently I'm all for having a single tailgate and always have been - and in the past I've had to watch myself about what I say about C-Firm events or whatever else.
Danielle - you have a great point - but when CVI gets there we just set up next to what you already have set up is what I'm thinking. Like at the opener.
right right... thats what i was trying to say. i jsut did a bad job of explaining.. lol.
but instead of asking to connect..... just connect with us
heh - dude - you KNOW I have to ask!.
Next game, set up your food so that we can put our tables and grill next to your food tables ... there's always someone on the north side of you - and there's no room on the south side.
okay... we will do what we need to do to keep the others off your north side!
I agree with this. It makes it easier on everybody and the bigger tailgate impresses more people anyway. Regardless of what people's seating arrangement is on the inside that stadium, this is something we have in common outside the stadium.
This is a decision that needs to be made between the leadership of both the C-Frim and the NCC. I can throw together a draft of a proposal if need be.
thats fine with me