Europe has an elite 5-6 teams. The rest are 2nd tier teams or lower. Teams like Mexico or Korea are no worse than England, Sweden, Russia and so on, but better than teams that regularly qualify from Europe like Poland, Slovenia, Greece.
You can't make a direct comparison between a 1970's football team and a present day team. In fact, you can't do a direct comparison of anything that improves over time, if you do, then everything from the past becomes shìt (cars, airplanes, buildings, etc). 30 or 40 years from now someone that does what you are doing will consider today's Spain mediocre, are you going to agree? You have to judge a team or player based on their performance against their peers; what they did in their time.
Greece regularly qualify? They failed 3 times in-a-row until getting through via the playoff in 2010. Although rojodirecta kind of shot himself in the foot when he mentioned "USA, Mexico, Korea Rep, Japan". His point would've been stronger if he mentioned the 2nd-tier teams in these confederations - who are nowhere near the level of England, Sweden, Russia, etc - yet still get into World Cups...
Agreed. But I was generally pointing out that Europe has 5-6 elite teams, which are above anyone other than Brasil and Argentina, but Europe has 12-13 slots, which could easily be won by the best of each confed if given the opportunity. Meanwhile the second rate European teams regularly get beat by teams from other confeds.
Wow, talk about laugh out loud. I can't believe you can compare Mexico's and Korea's team anywhere near England's, Sweden's and Russia's. All of England's players play in the premier league, one of if the not the best league in the world. Mexico is full of players playing in the Mexican first division which is the equivalent of the Championship in England. Most of Korea's player play in the Korea's league, which is even worse, it could be comparable to the England League 1 (Which is after the championship). Mexico, apart from Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay face teams like Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. The same with Korea, apart from Japan, they face teams such as Lebanon, Qatar, Iraq, Malaysia and Thailand etc. These teams wouldn't even make it into the 4th division of English football. You can't tell me these teams are comparable to the ones that you mention which contains players that play in Europe's top leagues. Wake up.
Just to put into perspective what you said. We'll take a player called Chu Young Park, he plays for South Korea and is their captain, who according to you are on the levels of England, Russia and Sweden and better than teams such as Greece, Slovenia and Poland. This player moved to Arsenal, a team which is yet to win a single piece of silverware for 7 seasons in a row, he moved there nearly a year ago and has played 70 minutes of football, that of which was a League cup match against a 4th division side. He has had no injuries of such and hasn't made the starting line up because he can't cut it in the premier league. Now if South Koreas best player can't get a single minute of Premier league football, what chance do South Korea have of qualifying out of Europe.
1. How many Premier League players did Poland, Greece or Slovenia have when they qualified for their last World Cups? 2. A player can be crap for club, but great for country. For example Klose does way better for his national team, than for any clubs. Park is team catain, because he is the brains. He always shows up for his country, but he isn't asctualy South Korea's star player. 3. National team doesn't have a lot to do club football. For example Cameroon 1990 consisted mostly of players from the Cameroon league and their star player was a 38 year old Milla, who played most of his football in the French 2nd division. Meanwhile they were good enogh to actually win the World Cup with a bit more luck and little bit less rash tackling. 4. The fact is that for some time now South Korea, Mexico and so on has a superior record against 2nd tier European teams. 5. Another fact is that EPL may be the best league, but most star players aren't actually English.. 6. South Korea is a tightly knit team which plays as a unit, much like Scandinavian countries, which in the end form a team, which is much more then the sum of its parts.
I think ZahZAh has a point here: Not many more than 5 or 6 of the Uefa teams would have a REALISTIC chance of qualifying out of Conmebol if they had to play there. Let's look at the Uefa seeding pots for 2014: Pot 1 Spain Netherlands Germany England Portugal Italy Croatia Norway Greece Pot 2 France Montenegro Russia Sweden Denmark Slovenia Turkey Serbia Slovakia Pot 3 Switzerland Israel Ireland Belgium Czech Rep Bosnia Belarus Ukraine Hungary Pot 4 Bulgaria Romania Georgia Lithuania Albania Scotland N.Ireland Austria Poland Pot 5 Armenia Finland Estonia Cyprus Latvia Moldova Macedonia Azerbaijan Faroe Islands Pot 6 Wales Liechtenstein Iceland Kazakhstan Luxembourg Malta Andorra San Marino Anybody would risk any "hard earned" money betting on pots 2,3,4,5,6? I wouldn't even bet on 3 or 4 teams from pot 1
1. Poland, Greece and Slovenia contain players from Europes top leagues, Bundesliga, Serie A and La liga. The Premier league was just an example league. 2. That is true, but a players true ability is a maxture of doing both well. Klose is one example and tbh I can't think of many more, correct me if I'm wrong. From what I know watching South Korea play, he is their top scorer, top creator and captain. 3. You can't say what could have been. From the looks of that tournament Cameroon were nowhere near good enough to win it. Soviet Union says hello. Cameroon qualified from their group through sitting back and getting a lucky goal. 4. I disagree, show me this record? I know they got beaten 4-1 by an understrength Spain side a few months ago. Not to mention losing 1-0 to Belarus a few months ago, one of the worst teams in Europe. 5. Yes that is true, but all the players selected for the national team play in the premier league, it is rare nowadays to see an Englishman get selected whilst playing abroad. 6. Playing as a team only gets you so far, if you don't have the skill you won't get as far as you'd like. Any national team can set up rigid and get a result.
Lost my previous post with data and don't feel like going through it again, so will be concise... LOL. Mexico and South Korea contain more top Europe league players than Poland, Greece, Slovenia. Another thing - the top Mexicans and South Koreans don't always move to Europe to play football. Due to lack of financial need, cultural issues and a growing fanbase at home.
From my count, I see 4 Korean players who play in Europes top leagues. Poland have around 9 or 10. Greece around 4 or 5 and Slovenia the same. Sorry what were you saying? It's more korean players don't move to Europe and they aren't wanted, your telling me a korean player earning pittance a week wouldnt move to Europe and earns thousands? Give me a break.
In regards to dominance over European teams, if you call beating teams such as Greece 1-0 from the use of super negative in a world cup group game dominance then yeah. The point is Korea fail to qualify comfortably from the Asian world cup qualifiers, they get beaten by teams such as Zambia 4-2, Bahrain 2-1 and even Lebanon 2-1 at HOME! These are simple games even Belarus would sweep away.
Nonsense. Show me the amazing stats of a NT such as Belarus. And show me when Zambia played in Asian qualifiers..
No team outside of maybe Spain or Germany would beat Mexico at the Azteca, and I'd be willing to bet more often then not Mexico would beat the likes of Greece, Russia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Poland, Ukraine, Switzerland and Bosnia, to say that they wouldn't qualify out of UEFA is kind of dumb.
Sorry my mistake the Zambia fixture was a friendly. The other results still stand, research them. Exactly, my point was Belarus are one of the worst teams yet still would be teams such as these.
But tbh, there is no point arguing on this forum considering it's mostly populated with Americans which therefore equals bias.
Bingo. Paavo Nurmi was the greatest miler of the first half of the 20th century, and is still considered one of the all-time giants of track and field. But his mile times would leave him almost half a lap behind today's best milers. As Misterioso says, you have to judge a team or player based on their performance again their peers.
Mexico have reached the 2nd round every WC since 94', along the way they have proven that they can be superior or equal to the likes of Germany, Italy, France, and Argentina. They miss the last bit of luck to get further. If Mexico played in a euro I'd give them a good chance to reach the QF.
1. In dominating I do not mean specific games, but overall results. 2002 for example is 9 non-UEFA wins vs 4 UEFA wins, two of which are from Turkey. 2. ROTFL at Zambia. Who BTW is current African champion. An uneven team but one that is capable of beating the best in the world. It may have been the Olympics but thrashing Italy 4:0 is no mean feat.
THIS Polish team has a lot of players from European top leagues. Not that it helped them. But the teams that played at the WC 2002 or 2006 had 2-3 top league players and most of those were goalkeepers (BTW they have 7 players playing in one of the top 4 leagues) DO you have any idea how much footballers in Korea earn? They may not earn millions, but they hardly earn pittances. Fact is that culture and distance as well as limited scouting limits transfers of Far East Asian players to Europe. South Korea is a well knt team, which superior physical conditioning and vastly better than most second rate players playing in second rate teams in Europe, even if they play in a top league. One more thing: Its just easier to get utility players from Europe than bringing them in from all around the world. Not to mention they is a foreign player limit in most leagues, so only the best of the best make it to Europe. The results speak for themselves. South Korea has outplayed most 2nd tier European sides in competitive matches. BTW South Korea beat Greece 2:0, not 1:0. A team supposedly 1 of the top 8 from Europe...