That is indeed a mystery because the Germans were continuously complaining while the Dutch shut their mouth in the second half, probably because they had no belief in the result and referee anymore (Cruijff was carded for talking while Beckenbauer got away with his many verbal abuses against Taylor... shame...). By the way, the defender who is standing in front of Müller is Rijsbergen. Rijsbergen was injured at that moment in the match. He became injured after a foul of Müller on him in the first half. This is known and documented. Rijsbergen his mobility was limited and that is why Müller is not standing offside. Probably he made a handball too.
Anyhow, result wise Spain belongs to the greats but what speaks against them is that only euro2008 was a convincing win. All others were not and with a low amount of goals, compared with the other great teams. Furthermore, many have the idea that they are helped by the referee and that is not without a reason. Finally, it is also a fact that some Spanish officials have a seat at multiple key positions within the FIFA and UEFA at the same time, while this is not the case with other nations (this used to be the case with Germany, who controlled every key position but this seems to be a bit diminished; they have not a quantitative dominance anymore).
This is the difference: Holland met a controversial referee in the semi-final, who was already ranting in the dressing room of Holland before the match started. That was unheard of, a condemning speech before a single ball was kicked. Germany had Gonella as referee, the same man who officiated the 1978 final two years later (because first choice Klein was an Israelite and the Argentinians managed to 'kill' him)... And he did not even whistle for a foul in these moments... Not even a foul... Where was the global outcry by the corporate media? Nigel de Jong received a yellow... Hoeness was not even a foul according to the ref. And walked by him as if the Czechian was a piece of shit. Minor moments like this can become very decisive. Czechian player Gögh was dizzy, confused and had a headache in the rest of the match, he had a minor head injury. Those little details matter.
Brazil's dominance is not as as impressive as it seems at first sight. Brazil really dominated from 1994 to 1997-98 and then in WC2002 and yet I don't think they dominated as much as Spain does right now. They quite simply never seemed to be invicible. From 1998 to 2002 they were clearly not the best team in the world. Plus if you put the confederation cup into the equation then France 1998-2006 would also have something to say : at first sight, 1 WC, 1 WC final, 1 Euro, 2 confed also seem to compare with Spain's achievements. But like Brazil, it's not only a matter of achievements : as great as they were, I don't think Brazil and France ever showed the same level of dominance as Spain did for so long.
Correct. I wish Spain was sometimes more lethal, as they were vs Italy. Their WC10 was a bit disapointing in that aspect with their low goalscoring record. However, I find their defensive record absolutely outstanding : the last time they took a goal in a knock-out game was in WC06 vs France ! Paradoxically, that offensive team will remain as one of the greatest defensive teams ever thanks to his game based on possession.
But means dominance that it were inferior teams? Maybe they were just as good and had that era not 1 Spain but "two Spains" (Italy and Holland were good in that era as well; I've read that France feared Holland as finalist both times but Brazil and France were sticking out in terms of consistent results). Such records are fragile though. Paraguay scored a legit goal in 2010 and if Ronaldo had made that chance in 2012... Plus, their defense is sometimes really playing on the edge. Think about Puyol in the 2010 final. Of course, every team needs a bit of luck (France against Portugal in 2000 - it was a legit PK but arguably not every ref had made that call if you know what I mean) but an exploit like Brazil in 1970 or France in 2000 (I think they won deserved without much controversy) wasn't shown by them. By the way, Italy played with 10 men in the 2012 final and in 2008 they missed their key players Pirlo + Gatusso and the game went into PKs...
another post another dumb post....belgium was robbed in qualification.....you are last person now pointing somthing out against germans...holland didnt deserve to play the worldcup..comprende puck???no love for the unhappy belgians??? holland failed with a offside attemt action against müller, so did rysbergen and krol in this action..plain and simple..rysbergen holding his hand up suggesting a offside of müller,rysbergen knew very well müller wasnt offside , he had a clear view....müller scored his irst goal against defender krol with one of his unique turningshots.......against brasil holland severall times was lucky the referee made miserable offside actions against brasilian players...and in the final a gerd müller pass for hoeness was called offside, not even close offside, hoeness robbed a potentional good chance for a one and one situation with the dutch the goalkeeper..beckenbauer was captain so was johan cruijff..cruijff run his mouth against taylor much more than beckenbauer ......watch both actions...cruijff got his yellow for the reason he made a second attemmt running his mouth against taylor.....and the worst foul in the final 1974 did johan cruijff..i repeat johan cruijff.....a tackle against helpless sepp maier where had the ball in his hands...a clear red card action using your criterias....and johan cruijff allready was yellow carded before...so it wasnt allways berti voigts you like allways pointing out...neskens was a other player where got a yellow card after his THIRD foul against german players in the first half...vogts actions wasnt worster than neskens..you remember neskens bodycheck against sepp maier in the second half?? what did sepp to be foulded twice???
Dude, I posted the picture before, it isn't clear whether it was an onside goal of the Belgians. But you are persistent in maintaining that it was a clear fact. It wasn't. The Brasil game: it resulted in a scandalous match where the Brazilians were condemned by the international press but also the Dutch retaliated indeed (with help from the pro German corporate media this history is revised nowadays to an extent where the Dutch are the 'evil' persons, shame). But who was the referee in that match? Which nationality did he possess? You ignore certain points I make. Last point: Cruijff got carded because he complained about various referee decisions. Beckenbauer complained also to the referee various time and his first words were "you are an Englishman". He questioned his integrity continuously. That is even a worse offense, to imply against the referee that he has not integrity... but it wasn't punished.... why? Because of the home advantage, and because it was an Englishman and the English and German elite were and are good friends... Taylor has said that Beckenbauer challenged his integrity throughout the match.
In euro 2012 Spain scored the most goals and allowed the fewest. In 2010, they were very low scoring but they dominated Germany even though the scoreline didn't show it. Also keep in mind that they had tough fixtures. Is beating Ukraine 3-0 really more impressive than beating Portugal 1-0? No penalty shootouts either which is rare for a WC winner. The fact that they often cause opponents to alter their game plan to deal with Spain says a lot too.
Here it is again, the so called offside goal: Standing level in those days was offside, unlike today.
Lets look at all euro winners: 1996: 10 goals, 3 goals against 2000: 13 goals, 7 goals against 2004: 7 goals, 4 goals against 2008: 12 goals, 3 goals against 2012: 12 goals, 1 goal against (thanks to playing against 10 men against Italy) Not so extraordinary They also bruised Podolski his foot. How they keep on escaping yellow cards is beyond me.
I'm not saying they were extraordinary in 2012. What makes them extraordinary is when you combine 2012 with 2008-2011. Although those stats you just posted disproves your point that they scored an unusually low amount of goals. lol You're complaining about the refereeing in the WC 2010 final? Seriously?
level...you are a blind troll.......puck... who is this dutch player?? ..use the sparbank name and the penaltyzone line..minimum 1 meter or more the belgium player wasn toffside.... http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/ruud20020208.html olso this article from planet worldcup (autor ruud doevendans)..there was a dutch study with computerhelp where confirm the belgium player wasnt offside..not by a mile... and funny enough you pointed out in one of your followed posts a dude have postet a english sportnewspapers article..a blatant lie..
No, if you subtract those four goals against 10 men it is still a rather low amount. And in 2008 they scored 4 against Russia but all other matches were not enriched with many goals. [/quote] lol You're complaining about the refereeing in the WC 2010 final? Seriously? [/quote] About the refereeing whenever Spain or Barcelona is involved. This was already apparent in 2006 when Shevchenko scored a legit goal in the 89th minute, which would have forced Barcelona into extra time. But it was disallowed, of course. And this is why: http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=esp/news/newsid=1586565.html
And this provoked debate because it was pointed out that standing level = offside. Indeed, they studied it with the computer. If you think that this was a legit goal, then the goal of Platt against Germany in 1990 was a legit goal too.
Everything Spain does Barcelona does once or twice a week, every week and Barca does it much better!!
in this days there was only 1-2 videocamers used..often without replays...........however with todays technic used we dont need a debatte how miserable the offside call was.....and its your own people where confirm that.... you did lie and pointed out i have used a english sportnewspapers article in one of your following posts ....i knows why ...i have postet the text and not the link few months ago.... dont bore me with your notorius conspiracys..... a example leeds united 1975.... leeds united was robbed against bayern munich 1975 ...your opinion.... my opinion ...leeds was the better team bayern scored 2 legal goals... leeds was denid 1 penalty and leeds scored 1 goal, recalled after the referee had a disusion with the linesman..the video shows 1-2 leeds players in slightly offside and passive offside position...the rules you knows..however not allways used in games..the lucky germans... the other side of this game rarely mentioned.... early in this game the referee called a foul ( a german player was fouled)..this means the referee has stopped the game..bayern player anderson was in movement to pick up the ball,..leeds player yorath stopped anderson with a brutal foul..rammed with his outstreched leg his studs in andersons kne...he nearly has destroyed his knee..anderson was out for many months....he was transportet out and 2 minutes later there was a dürnberger foul and a call..lorimer responded with a ellbow action in dürnbergers face...videofootage of both actions are available...both actions was straight red cards but absolut nothing is happend... you dont like germans....anderson is no german... so i knows where leeds suporters can complain and i knows where bayern suporters can complain...but i need nobody where point out it was onsided refereeing.. comprende....puck???
Correction mr. 621380... Leeds was denied two penalty kicks, not just one. And Bayern played dirty too. I indeed said that Leeds was robbed. The referee never officiated an European match again and was a few years later also charged with corruption.
I'm positive that you can find cases FOR and AGAINST Barca, Spain, Germany, etc. It's all pretty selective anyway.
Now let's talk about the meaning of "dominated" - and in what sense? 1- Team A (Spain) could be "dominated" others as they possessed 60-70% of the balls, but ennded up 1goal win (soemtimes it gave me a "heart attack until they score" ) 2- TeamB (Brazil) could also be "dominated' as they trashed their opponents with 2,3 goals win (despitr of 55-60% ball possession. So what scenario you choose? On top of the FACT I do not recall, Brazil 94-02 ever lost 4goals to any teams (even friendly) like Spain did vs Portugal, Argentina ... France 98-06 won trophies, but AGREE that they were NEVER a true winner (WC98 against Ronaldoless, Euro2000 struggling in extra time, and 04 failed against Greece and so on ...)
Of course, we talk about tendencies. Even in flagrant, and proven, 'conspiracies' like Juventus 1994-2006 it happened that Juvetus had calls against them. So even in that archetypal case it happened.
correction puck...2 leeds player wasnt send off early.... deliberate ellbowing a player in the face after a foul call is a red card and nearly destroying a players knee after the referee has stopped the game normally too......and finally bayern scored 2 legal good goals and the leeds goal was offside..so was the offside rules back in this days... i agree with you the referee was crap in some actions against both teams..
you're right as Spain missed a Messi in center + Alves and Abidal on both flanks (of Barca) however we are discussing of them as "best NATIONAL team" - exclude clubs
Back to Brazil vs Spain with their achievement in more or less same number BIG games: ============================= G == W == GF == GA Brazil 97-02: (1WC + 1 WCfinal + 2Copas) 26 ==23 == 71 == 19 Spain 06-12: (1WC10 + 2Euro08 +12) ----- 23 == 19 == 43 ==10 Over more or less same period and games played (main competition) - Brazil EDGED with 89% of winning percentage over SPain with 83% - Brazil brought ENTERTAINMENT scoring 2.73 Goals/game against SPain with just 1.86GPG