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Discussion in 'Argentina: Clubs' started by El viejo Matias, Aug 8, 2009.
If it wasn't bad enough, now we're hitting the credit books. If this doesn't make us look seriously at fixing our league, whilst this happens at the most critical time for a WCQ against Brazil in Argentina. It's like we tempted the fates, and now we're being smitten.
What were you doing all these years Grondona? Living the high life?..... you twat.
When I think of Grondona and the dirigentes, it makes me wonder why I still support futbol. The game is so beautiful, but everything around it is so ugly.
Then there is this:
All this talk about suspending the tournament is a power play for money. I think there will be football, because it is in the interest of all the money grabbers that there be football. But, we cannot underestimate the foolishness of greedy old men. There is a chance that they will ******** it up so much that they will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
What I can't understand is why the need to be greedy. He has all the money and influence he wants. What's he going to do with any extra cash flow, buy a supply of viagra and hope to get his dick up? A low class diseased hooker wouldn't touch him with a 30 foot pole.
Resolved in time, depends, probably the beginning of the season will be delayed a couple of weeks. Also Grondona right now is being pushed by the club presidents who agreed unanimously on this.
Simple, the party is over for TyC... It'll be official the Tuesday.
Also guys, don't worry that much about debts and what not like i said many times already football has been played with debts since day one, and nowadays even in places like Spain they're doing so, so it is not different from other years it's just a facade so the clubs finally can get more money from TV, probably not what they deserve but more, that's for sure.
Will TyC die? I don't know, but the ball will keep rolling that's for sure.
Reuniones decisivas para el futuro del fútbol argentino
So what does this say about TYC and their television rights. As I read in your other thread, I think you mention TYC has legitimate rights to almost all sporting events and has a strangle hold on everything. Furthermore, I think you mentions this isn't an issue spoken about much, since TV rights in Argentina are sort of a taboo to bring up?
Why not break the rights up and share them among other competeting television stations like EPSN in Argentina or at least outsource them to markets like Europe, America, and Canada?
The matter is that AFA is asking for more money from TyC, who gives the money to the clubs, though they aren't the only ones who get any money from football, they do get a small part, so partly it's true that they may not have more money to offer, however Grupo Clarín(TyC being part of it) as a whole is taking most of the cake.
In the recent days with the failed attempt from AFA to make something about bwin, the TV rights issue became a hot topic again, many tried to avoid it or some(like in TyC Sports and FOX Sports), said things like "The TV may raise their share to the clubs when they shouldn't..." probably because now in AFA they were unhappy about the issue, so basically the winds began to blow on another direction. Why the rights aren't being shared is probably because there hasn't been any other bidders(as far as i know there wasn't anybody else), and maybe AFA isn't interested on who takes them as soon as they offer what they want, lately AFA has been asking for an undisclosed raise to TyC, which they considered "outrageous" or "sideral". Early today the new took notoriety, the state is willing to offer AFA what they want for the TV rights, which not only means TyC losing a beloved jewel, but also that football is moving to air TV. The whole day today(Sunday) in TN and TyC Sports they've been talking with horror about this new, the contrast with the others it didn't get that much attention though the ones that did titled it "The end of the monopoly of TyC".
Now regarding TyC and other sports, if you remove football of the picture, other than Basketball, there isn't much that TyC can offer as it is right now, it's true they have showed the main events of the olympic games, but so did others, same with world cups, ESPN+ on paper is winning over TyC there, since they have Rugby, Volleyball, Hockey and Polo. On a bigger scale of football, FOX Sports and ESPN/ESPN+ have the rights for the european leagues and cups, DirecTV has all the matches of La Liga and the Premier League, TyC just a bunch of pre-season friendlies. Got to see what will be of TyC after this. Also we must not forget that this involves also the second division, not the first division exclusively.
If becoming true, this may cause an interesting revolt in argentine air TV in general because the space that football would take is on the week-ends, which in general programs have very low ratings compared to week-days, with pretty much half-assed programming mainly consisting on movies and series(like TELEFE's "The Simpsons' Festival" which runs for undertermined amount of hours every week-end), could that be because they can't compete with football even being on cable?
Finally in a way or another i think this brings up some question which likely will get answered as the week moves on:
-Will the state take care of the stadium security like the clubs have been demanding these past days? This is a very important issue.
-Will the clubs(with different amounts on each division, of course) share the money equally? This may be overlooked but shouldn't be taken lightly, true it isn't the only source of money for the clubs but it's the main one, just now in Europe they're realizing that this could be the cause of a bog inequity in some countries between the clubs.
-It's always thought that by background talk TyC was pushing for the Apertura/Clausura format, may this be the time for the change?
-If in the future more air TV channels become available nationwide, may there be the possibility of other channels getting the TV rights, but always keeping it on air TV?
-Not exactly a question... But it's clear that CableVisión will no longer be the sponsor of the first division.
Re: Reuniones decisivas para el futuro del fútbol argentino
en este quilombo
quien tiene la razon?
Re: Reuniones decisivas para el futuro del fútbol argentino
Read the thread in the club forums, we already sorted it out. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1128984
It is up in the air still, as the tournament has been postponed for a week, starting on the 21st.
As much as the gov't wants to take over the rights, Congress won't approve a US$200 million investment in footie. Giving the state runned channel 7 the rights doesn't solve it, as they are not capable of producing the broadcasts, so Telefe would be required to help.
In a broader spectrum, this is all political, with the excecutive wanting to hurt Clarin Group, as they blame them for the loss in the elections a few weeks back.
Breaking the monopoly will have serious consequences, as they would be breaking a contract unilaterally. Lawsuits will follow, and don't know that AFA or the clubs can handle a heavy lawsuit. Meanwhle, the opposition in Congress has the control, and will not approve a bill to have the state handle football. So it could mean that there is no TV broadcasts, no money to transfer the rights to channel 7, no money to pay lawsuits and a general footie bankrupcy.
The saddest thing is that the main fault comes from the dirigentes, and their corrupt signings, where they get cuts for signings ... the larger the signing the larger the cut. Spending way more than what they take in. This way, no matter how much you get from TV, you will always be in red. And AFA should relegate those that are in red, yet they don't do anything about it.
Clubs should wait for a sale, in order to spend higher wages and signings, instead of "assuming" they will sell players in their projections ... if those sales don't pull thru like this winter, they are fuuuuuuct.
PD: Boca, River and Lanus are supporting Grondona, so it will be pretty feasible that the rest of clubs will support him in breaking the contract with TyC. Interesting to note that Macri was oppossed to breaking the contract and that Ameal didn't give 2 sheeets.
Victor Hugo Morales, a big oppositor of AFA and to some extent of the government claims that TyC can't take legal actions because they're the ones to lose and we're talking about billions(Which probably TyC on its own can't handle and it would be a huge hit for Grupo Clarín), also if they really tried it'd show that TyC wants to destroy football. Also the state(not the government) would invest, but 200 million dollars for the state isn't such a big investment, also the state would earn money from that(a notable detail Grupo Clarín, on its various forms, is not mentioning).
A little update on what i said before. The supporting from the clubs to Grondona seems to be unanimous on this. Today at 7pm, time of Buenos Aires, will be the official announcement, the season will begin the 21th(a week later than scheduled), and that the contract with TyC is done for.
Some of the questions are getting answered, like where will the matches be shown? Well looking at the situation Canal 7 is the obvious one, also Canal 9. For the nostalgic, back in the day these channels used to show the matches, when Canal 9 had the pigeon logo and Canal 7 was known as ATC. Regarding the second divison, not everything seems to be clear yet, it's believed that it could go to América TV(traditionally known as "Canal 2"), who also had their rights some years ago(Note América 24, cable channel of América TV's family(PRAMER) shows some TAA matches), but unlike in the first division until now of the 10 matches around 3 or 4 used to be shown per round, will they show all the 10 matches now? Of the possible cable channels the possibilities of Encuentro, C5N and ESPN/ESPN+ were floating around but were ditched because well... They're still cable channels.
It's completely uncertain where will the matches be aired for other countries, also take in mind that such thing is little to irrelevant in Argentina(it's something that's never taken into consideration), got to see if anybody thought about that even.
EDIT: I almost forgot. It's interesting that those three channels in question(América TV, Canal 7 and Canal 9) of the big five have smaller ratings compared to the other two(Telefe and Canal 13). In the week-ends ratings tend to be low for everybody, i'm more convinced that this will surely cause an interesting effect on open TV in general.
Hmm, for sure there are good $$ for international rights, contracts that are signed already, and which will create some headaches if broken. Remember the Pompilio quote?
Most importantly, bif part of the future is in int'l TV rights, and the expectation the league can keep building. Exposure for players (clubs need that too). I expect to see the int'l thing solved rather quickly. This is where maybe ESPN will jump for the int'l rights. But first you need to have local broadcast, if not, costs would be too high.
So, it's safe to say that while it's true that the clubs have been acting irresponsibly all along, the current crisis was engineered by AFA and the clubs to get out of their TV contract and get more money.
And the K gov't ... payback to Clarin.
For what Pompilio described there was good money but the clubs weren't getting much from it, got to see what happens with it, because after all i think that no matter how much they get may not be much significant. Also notice that at the time Pompilio made a reference to the money from Europe, which may bring up the question, is argentine football more popular in Europe(with the low ratings that could be) than other places it could get audiences like North America or middle east?
Now, if ESPN could've had any interest in the domestic rights, could it be possible that they'll take care of the international ones as saturated as the ESPN channels are? That'll be an interesting issue to look at.
And yes, argentine soccer fan, it was all facade, because after all the situation isn't any worse than in other years.
Also(got to see if it stays...) Canal 7 can be seen online via its homepage live stream.
EDIT: I just remembered... Quique Wolff who has his own program on ESPN and is an analyst in some matches there, has also been analyst in some matches on Canal 7 in the past(when he already was taking part on ESPN), hmm...
The relevant question for me is, will el Clasico del domingo still be shown on Fox in the US?
I doubt it, as it was a TyC production an TyC who sold the rights to Fox Sports.
TyC will get lawsuits from the foreign re-broadcasters ... that will be messy, specially if TyC can't suit AFA because of "shady" numbers (if what Victor Hugo says is accurate).
Then it'll likely be produced by someone else, i think that doesn't mean that FOX Sports in the US won't have it. From here to next week got to see what happens with it.
I fear Fox USA might not really miss it. It wouldn't surprise me if they'd be happy to put yet another Mexican league game instead. Given the demographics of the US, that is where the ratings are.
This post made me curious to find out what I could about ratings for the different matches. While finding actual numbers were harder than I thought, what I did come across will have me looking for concrete information before I post too much of an opinion. Futbol it seems has turned into a very big player amongst the 18-49 age group which is one of the toughest nuts to crack in the ratings game.
Aside from a particular derby or international fixture most of the matches seemed to be in line with one another with the highest ratings overall going to EPL games. It seems the average fan in North America just wants quality matches to watch. This bodes well for fans of Futbol Argentino in the states.
Don't worry ASF, we wont be restricted to watching all our games on the computer that much I'll go out on a limb and promise you.
Lets hope so. I have no idea about the ratings, it just seems to me that Mexican football would get better ratings due to demographics, but I have no idea if that is true.
I hope Fox remains a player in Argentine football, and it would be nice if ESPN deportes becomes a player too. Maybe now they will bid for some games.
Based off demographics you certainly would think the Mexican game gets better ratings and on Mexican owned stations I'm sure they do. It is for that reason you won't see much more Mexican matches on FSC. In the pecking order FSC has at least two to three channels to bid against. ESPNDeportes would be nice but Fox will do.
Well regarding of the broadcasting in here, the matter of the commentators and analyst rosters. While not all of them will make it but it's probable that some of the TyC dudes are brought to the open TV channels, some like Alejandro Fabbri were predictable, since he has a program on Canal 7, or Óscar Martínez who's an analyst on both TyC and Canal 7, in the latter along Canal 7's main commentator Gustavo Kuffner. It's rumoured that Marcelo Araujo could return(He was the host of a program in Canal 7 along Julio Ricardo and Cherquis Vialo, who now works for AFA, and commented World Cup matches on Canal 9 after he left TyC related stuff). It's probable that many of the commentators working on FOX Sports won't do it, specially Gustavo Lopez and Vignolo(Many, like Alejandro Apo and Victor Hugo Morales have pointed at them, without exactly naming them, as the declining of the sport journalist). About new people the guys from ESPN+ seem to be on the radar people like Wolff(who has been the partner of Kuffner in some european matches), Tacchini, Sacco, Veréa, Perfumo and Kempes are mentioned but it's unknown if any of them will be there.
What's known is that Fútbol de Primera will no longer exist and their exclusivity for the images is over, now the images can be seen at any time, no more waits. Some believe that could mean the return of Todos los goles, in my opinion it's unlikely.
What seems an unfound rumour is that since TELEFE not being part of Grupo Clarín and being a massive open TV channel is being left out, it's possible that they buy the rights for the Libertadores matches involving argentine sides(like they did in the late 80's and early 90's), got to see how much of that is true. But also remember that Telefe has an international feed TELEFE Internacional, though i don't know about its availability in North America.
Fox Sports has the rights to the libertadores, I don't think they would hurt their biz unless it is highly profitable. I doubt it.
Telefe does have the int'l feed in the US thru directv. Don't know if dishnetwork or other local cable companies carry it. Maybe in place like Miami, the local cable may have it.
It is pretty messy regarding the int'l audience. I would expect that Fox Sports keeps their Clasico dle Domingo for the US and the extra game for the latinamerican feed (Fox Sports Cono Sur feed). But they will need to renegotiate, and I think they will do so.
The rest of the league is up in the air. Maybe a chain such as goltv or telemundo can jump for a game here and there, the oldschool way before we had Fox Sports or TyC in the US ... for the rest of latinamerica it could work the same way. But it all depends on the $$ being asked.
In the interview with Grondona that I posted, Gondona talks about esproting the TV rights and not the players ... if only clubs could had better incomes, they could pay better wages and keep the players longer in the argentine league. That would mena higher $$ for rights of the argenitne league to foreign countries ... lets see who has the $$ to do so. FOr one, ESPN has massive $$ for footie since they lost the UCL and now they bought 2 EPL games per round for the US market and bought La Liga rights for some of Goltv's games. It depends on their schedule. But for the rest of latinamerica?
The thing that hurts the most is to be in the dark once again with the argie league, in terms of being able to watch it.