http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-11/sports/31322905_1_red-bull-arena-thierry-henry-cosmos interesting take and i will say - I agree 100% - A stadium on the west side, while iconic, would not capture the fans in the East. For this to work, Flushing Meadows has to be the location.
Went to the mets game yesturday got there early and that place is perfect for a soccer stadium plenty of room in the parking lot where shea once stood....... the junk yards area that is a clean up and demolitions and a project very expensive thats not going to happen in the next 10 years and a mess at the very least but the parking lot area no one cares about no one will be up in arms about a parking lot..... there is gotta be a way to plop a stadium there perhaps give wilpon a minority stake in the MLS team his buy in is just giving up the land no cash involvement.... in the future the junk yards that is getting kicked out can become the parking garages that make up for the lost parking space now at citi... aquaduct is to far out with terrible public transportation service the a train service is garbage all year round.... the lirr wants to restart the far rockaway lines again but thats a few years away from getting started.. but where citi field is at is perfect and the 7 train service is pretty damn good even on a bad day there is a 7 train every 5 mins going both directions.....weekend service its pretty good service as well i dont think pier 40 will ever happen its expensive just to get it ready for construction but citi field parking lot is ready to go right now....
I agree that queens may be the more viable option, but both options have their positives and negatives. I just hope that if the league decides on pier 40 or Brooklyn for that matter we all get behind it 100 percent. If people out east, wherever that may be, won't come to manhattan to watch a soccer game then what's to say people from manhattan will go to queens. It's a pound of hey vs a pound of bricks. But the one thin that I am sick of hearing, mostly from news articles like this, is that a westside stadium is somehow going to canabolize (sp?) the red bulls. I am sorry, but I have more soccer lovers in my building on the ues than they have fans attending games. canabolize?! That's a joke. If they are worried about losing fans from manhattan they've got bigger problems than I thought.
I'd say Greenpoint and Long Island City would be infinitely preferable to Flushing Meadows, from a transportation standpoint. Would dramatically increase access from all five boroughs.
I disagree with the Greenpoint portion. The lot of land in Greenpoint that Joe Fraga was talking about was lumber yards right on the water. The closest train was the G train and was still 5-10 minute walk to the stadium location. The G train not only is slow, but has 4 cars and does not enter Manhattan. Long Island City - Agreed - better options than Flushing Meadows.
Well here is my argument to that. There are 1 a little over 1 million people in Manhattan according to the consensus in July 2011. In Queens and Brooklyn there are over 2 million people each. The people of Manhattan will then have two stadium options all within a 20 minute train ride in either direction. If you build on Pier 40, the 4 Million people east of the east River still have to make their way into the city, and if they had NO problem doing that, they would probably be at RBA given it is only an extra 20 minutes from Pier 40. Honestly, i want the league to blow up and we need this team to be East of the Rivers or in the Bronx, but preferably in Queens, BK because it will be the center spot for people from those two boroughs and Long Island which is about 6-7 million people. Pier 40 alienates those people and also, give the people of North Jersey 2 options and I really dont want this team to effect the fan base of Red Bull - I want them to grow as well.
The new stadium has to be close to highways and sub/rail lines. Lots of ethnics living in Queens and Brooklyn so Flushing would be a nice spot to attract those cultures. Flushing would be a great spot because you can get there from a lot of places by subway. Not to mention for drivers, you got the BQE, Grand Central, Whitestone, Long Island, and Van Wyck all within the proximity of Flushing. I just don't see how Pier 40 would work from a transpo point of view.
I agree with this 100%. It goes both ways in terms of distance. And if the Mets are indicators (not just this year, but since the new stadium and even in Shea), it's not that good. And that's NYC's #1 sport. I think Garber has his mind right and prefers the urban core. And I agree with Garber on that note.
now it is but in the 80s it was a Mets town and the people had no problem going out to Shea then - even in 2006 they drew over 3 Million. If the product is right, marketing is right and its accessible, people will go. And to the same, Yankee stadium is the 4 train - about the same ride maybe longer from Grand Central than Citi and people go there.
The Mets are a terrible example to use when discussing Flushing stadium site? Also, the Mets are a good example being that it is, in fact, a Yankees town. Whatever team, if there is one, will be in the shadows of other teams. They will not have the history of the Yankees and won't command season ticket holders. The problems the Mets will face will be similar problems for the MLS team. (And don't bring up Ponzi schemes. It's the problem of breaking into a competitive market. But what the Mets have is they are playing in NYC's #1 sport).
Yeah but since then they have been lying like the RBs lie. 30K since moving into Citi. Come on. The April 7th game (saturday) must've been 15K max. And that was the second game of the season. Announced attendance: 39,526 (94.1% full). 100% BS.
What does the location have to with this? You are saying that the Mets will be better served in Manhattan????? It is actually easier getting to Citi than Yankee stadium from most places in Manhattan. Flushing has nothing to do with the lack of recent success of the Mets or its ticket sales. Mets have had serious hiccups in the past few years and don't let that jade the fact that Flushing is a viable spot. US Open, even though a yearly event, thrives every single year and there is no shortage of demand on site. And if you are worried about being in the shadow of the Red Bulls, stop worrying.
Well yea - agreed - location is just PART of the equation - i just dont think Queens is a bad location. If the team does things right, Queens isnt the problem - thats the point I was getting at. People will go to Queens for games if they WANT to. That is a different argument for a different day. To me there are factors such as Location of Stadium QUality of Team Marketing of Team Those three things are probably the main factors in people going to games. Maybe there are more, I just thing of those things as the main reasons. No? I am just saying that Queens isnt Belmont. If you have a good team in Belmont or Aqueduct, you will still have challenges getting people to the park, challenges you might not have in Flushing Meadows off the 7, LIRR, Major highways.
Hahahahaha Here, have a team The Meadowlands doesn't count it's not in the NYC proper. Okay, here' a team in Manhattan It's not in my borough, I'm not going --------- If folks really want to go see games in person, the MetroStars / Red Bulls would be doing great. There are always excuses available for those that just want to be poseurs. This is just funny. After 10 years of "not in NYC" being the mantra, the goalposts get moved to Manhattan is too far to for the poor fans on the east side. Ha
Obviously, you have never lived in NYC. I don't live in NYC anymore, but I can tell you first hand that MetroStars and Red Bulls management were/are probably the worst in MLS. They alienate the hell out of their own fans and that is why NYC folks are a little more picky this time around because they so badly want a team in which the owners actually give a shit.
Andymead My point exactly! I will be at any game anywhere inside NYC proper(except SI) with my mls gear in hand singing t the top of my lungs. I guess that's what I was eluding to with my previous post. Queensnick, it does appear that you have moved the goal posts here so I will ask you straight up, A stadium in manhattan will sell out no matter what but would you attend the games and be a supporter of the team? Or is that not the case anymore?
First off - i never said that I am not going to the games. Clearly you want to twist words to make you feel like your better than the world. Your not. Second of all, as a native NYer - I think I understand the people of the city better than you. IN GENERAL - i think Queens will better serve a larger quantity of people. Like, the thousands of Latino families that already spend their weekend in Flushing Meadow park because they dont want to go into the city. You wouldnt know that because...well ...your not from here. Im just speaking in general but of course, your going to twist words, disappear for 2 months and not then come back and make another ignorant comment. Thank You - He clearly does not understand NYC. Dude - i will be there wherever it is and if its the Cosmos or if its New York City FC. Dont matter to me. I am ready to put my season ticket money down. I was speaking in general on which location would be better to capitalize on the market and I really feel that a stadium East of the East river would better serve the 7 million people on Long Island (which includes BK and Queens). Clearly, this being my opinion makes some people twist my words saying I wont attend games if its in manhattan (That being Andy) Do I prefer Queens - OF COURSE - i think its a better culture, but if they get Pier 40 done, I will be there. Queens is my preference, I will go anywhere, however I think if the stadium is in Queens, it will better server the league. Because not only will crowds be good but because I feel Pier 40 would negatively impact the RB fan base. I WILL REPEAT THIS FOR THOSE THAT COME IN, READ ONE POST AND NOT THE WHOLE THREAD. ANYONE ON THESE THREADS IS GOING TO BE THERE NO MATTER WHAT, WE ARE SPEAKING IN GENERAL OF A BETTER LOCATION AND ABOUT THE NON DIE HARD SOCCER FANS OUT THERE.
I'm lost. This whole thread is about location. First, you are 100% wildin' on transportation to the Bronx. The Yankees play right across the river from Manhattan. 3 subway lines on 2 routes are used. East side (4) and West side (B,D) can travel directly to the stadium without transfer. Metro-North and ferries also stop there. Not to mention major HWs. It would be naive of me to put location to blame for the Mets attendance. I'm not saying that. Clearly the place could rock if they had an attractive team. And MLS has to deal with the "unattractive soccer" stereotype. I think the Mets are a great comparison considering that an MLS team will have to deal with similar problems. But in response to those saying places closer to the urban core aren't better, and that Flushing is the BEST option...then I'd disagree. It might be the most realistic option, however. Looking at the Mets, a baseball team in a baseball town, i find it odd that new stadium in the # 1 sport is empty. It concerns me the same way I'm concerned about the empty seats in the Prudential in two "bigger" sports. Could the RBs ever rock that Arena when the Nets and Devils struggle in a brandnew venue? And Flushing is a viable spot. I would be a season-ticket holder in Flushing. Easily. Just saying the urban core would attract the most fans. And I think Garber agrees with me (or vice versa). Don't think this is worthy of comparison. No one is concerned about being in the shadows of the Red Bulls. When I said shadows, I was referring to the 9 other "major" teams in NYC...clearly.
Oh I think Queens is a great location. I just think LIC or places closer to Manhattan are better (Actually LIC is #1 on my list). All trains but the G go through Manhattan. And most bars, restaurants, etc are closer to Manhattan. There's a serious lack of action around Citi Field, unless I need auto glass. After April 7th's Mets game, we took the super express 7 to Qboro Plaza to catch another train to the beer garden for a post game. And those not drinking with us all went towards Manhattan some way or another. Not one went the other way (clearly I'm not from LI. My friends came from the Bronx, Washington Heights, Bay Ridge, BK, LES and Greenpoint). But if this is a NYC proper team, then I think most of NYC proper would follow a similar trend.
I think LIC would be better than Flushing Meadows too - i think think Flushing Meadows is more realistic though.