There are hundreds and hundreds of clubs in pro/rel leagues in the world. Some fails in the open market. There also has been many minor US sport teams not to mention the whole leagues collapsed. I provided series of examples before. by the way I don't like this new look and feel of bigsoccer.
And unnatrually keep out all those quality teams in D4? Within five years after a D1-D3 closed-pro/rel league is instituted, I predict an all-D4 final. Which is exactly why MLS (and its single-entity; closed structure) deserve tons of credit for succeeding, nay, thriving in an environment where so many failed
Uh... there are tons of much more succeeding soccer leagues with pro/rel in the world. What were we talking about?
Very good. We also don't have teams on the verge of collapse in our top tier league ... like every single other league in the world, you know the pro/rel ones.
What teams are on the verge of collapse in first division? I heard that 5 years ago about Real madrid, ManU, Man City, hell I've heard Europe is collapsing....
That information has been given to you on multiple occasions by myself and many others. I'm not going to drag all that shit back out simply because you're pretending this discussion hasn't happened more than once (with you involved) just because the board is all new and shiny.
Leeds? Rangers? Big clubs have a huge amount of financial problems. Pro/rel makes financially insolvent teams look worse than they are. Hell, Boston United used to be a constant League team, jumping between Leagues One and Two before their administration woes, now (and only now) are they a D6 team
If that's your goal, I think the only realistic chance pro/rel has is for MLS to form a 10 -12 team second division and allow the strongest teams from the NASL and USLPro to join it (for a fee), along with expansion teams. Give it five years to stablize and start pro/rel with significant revenue sharing for the relegated, at least during the early years. Not easy or cheap, but if we simply talking mechanics of making it work from a financial and corporate structure standpoint, it could be done IMO. Do you really think that would change much though? Instead of having a single 30 -32 team league as the NFL, NHL, MLB and the NBA do, we'd have a 32 - 40 team soccer league split into a first and second division.
No ... however Portsmouth shit the bed TWICE in the last 3 years and are headed to liquidation, Blackburn is facing 12 months of beyond shaky ground, Everton is so broke it is a joke, Liverpool escaped money trouble (but aren't completely out of it) by the skin of their teeth, Birmingham City would most likely have shit the bed had they not made the promotion playoffs .... ^ EPL clubs aren't big ? All of those clubs were in the EPL as recently as 2010 or are currently there. I mean, if it weren't for the Glazer's commercial income, ManU would be singing a much different tune. ALL OF ITALY WENT ON STRIKE Hell, in the SPL Ross County was asking for 20$ donations to fund their newly promoted campaign in the top flight. Rangers is mired in 'oh shit' land right now and are actually moving closer to liquidation now that Miller has backed out as preferred bidder, oh and Hearts is a mess too. I guess you don't remember this: http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/05/18/sportscribddoc.pd ... which was only posted 4 or 5 times during this discussion. It illustrates the state of the EPL clubs quite nicely in easy to read color/graphic form. It's just now dated, but still relevant. You're right, it is ongoing but the FACTS of which teams have gone into administration and which teams have faced/are facing serious money troubles doesn't go away. That's a bold face lie. Just because they're locked, doesn't mean we can't go back to the other pro/rel threads and lift your comments and show you to be a liar on this one. You've been championing an open pro/rel pyramid here in the States. Or is this your flavor of the week now ?
It doesn't have to be as bad as liquidation, there is real economic upheaval when a club sees a huge drop in revenue after relegation. This from the Guardian about Blackburn: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/10/blackburn-not-for-sale-venkys Again, moving high priced players and chopping the wage bill can help stem the tide of red ink following relegation, but the people behind the scenes -- from the ticket takers to groundskeepers -- suffer too. The money (and, often attendance) simply isn't there to justify the old staffing levels.
One thing is sure for me. I rather be a football fan in Blackburn than an American-football fan in uh.. say Norfolk, Virginia.
Why? Is the 28 minute drive to see D2 football to long? What about all the people who live, say 28 minutes from Ewood Park, are they "underserved" by D2 football?
Isn't it also true that a Virginian North Anglian gets to see every single NFL game on television where a Blackburnian has (comparitively) little access to Televised Premiership games?
Really. I didn't go to ODU. I went other school and don't want to root for ODU. What is your problem? Really.
Sorry, but no. There is zero realistic chance that MLS ever creates a scenario where full paying franchise members will ever be relegated into a second division thus lowering their franchise/resale value. MLS is smart, and smart companies don't force themselves into situations where they are going to devalue their own assets for no reason. The Board of Governors are made up of franchise holders, how on earth will they ever vote for a structural change that is guaranteed to screw some of them out of money? There are 2 realistic paths to pro/rel. The first one is if MLS was to decide to merge with a rival league (AFC and NFC or American League and National League). Lets say the Mexican League comes to MLS and says they want to create a single North American 'Premier League' and they got the OK from Concacaf/FIFA...well MLS might join that league and promote their best clubs into it if the money was right. So we'd see pro/rel but it would be below MLS it would be above, so owners who bought into MLS won't be forced down and devalued, they would have the chance to move up and potentially make more money. This will almost never happen, but it is a path to pro/rel within our single entity. The only pro/rel that even deserves tobe discussed is a promotion without relegation system. For instance you would just form a D2 and give them a limited franchise rights, limited revenue, and limited salary budget, lets call it MLS2. That MLS2 would play a season and a single team would win and be promoted to MLS. When they are promoted, that team would get a full franchise revenue and salary budget for the time they are in MLS. They would play in MLS for that year and at the end of the season no matter where they finish, they need to play the winner of MLS2 at the end of the season in order to stay up. MLS full franchises would be safe from relegation forever, they would never be devalued. D2 becomes stable, our young players have a place to play within the single entity, and you give clubs a chance to come up temporarily and basically test that market. Yes they will be smaller clubs, but if you bring in a Tampa or a San Antonio from D2, and they are bringing in 20k a game when they reach MLS, then the league can help those clubs find larger investors and work out a stadium deal and have them buy a full permanent franchise. Then MLS finds another mid-sized city to sell a MLS2 franchise to. The league would just continue to grow this way and eventually bring in every strong market, and leave the weaker markets in MLS2. It would never be the open system that people dream of, but its really the only way to make it work. Any scenario that starts with MLS franchises who paid franchise fees being devalued by relegation is a non-starter. It will never happen.
Well I grew up in London and don't want to root for Blackburn while I live there. You made the claim Despite a (soon to be) D-I American college football team playing in Norfolk and a (soon to be) Championship football side playing in Blackburn. Seems like a pretty similar set of options for a fan of either sport. If you don't like the specific team playing that's a different issue. But again, figuring all this out before you opened your yap and dumped whatever random thought came into your head to try to weasel out of your once again incorrect statement would require trying harder, something you've never bothered to do.
I guaranty to you that the number of football fans in Norfolk who feel underserved by the NFL, NCAAA and other football options is vanishingly small. Most football fans in the US don't attend all that many games, but instead watch them on television.
WTF... ODU represents the school which I didn't go. Blackburn represent my town where I was born/raised/lived. Oh.. of course you can still choose to be a snob and support Real Madrid or Manchester United.
ODU = 1-AA school in NCAA football in the region of discussion .... there's also Norfolk State Blackburn = Championship club for the city it's 2 to 1 in options. what do you not get ?
ODU = never NFL, never represent those who didn't go that school. Blackburn = represent the people there and can work its way to EPL again. What do you not get???
So what if you now live in Blackburn but where born/raised in say, Newcastle? Do you just assume that anyone who moves to Blackburn becomes a fan of Rovers regardless of their past loaylties? If not, isn't that the same issue as anyone who moves to Norfolk not being a fan of ODU because of their past loyalties? And if you were born/raised in Norfolk, odds are you have some loyalty to ODU even if you don't go there, for the same reason you have some loyalty to Blackburn if you were born/raised there. Believe it or not, many (most?) fans of many (most?) college football teams never went to that school. So what you're saying is that it is possible to be a fan and follow a team even if you're not in the same area as the team. Interesting. So then how would anyone in Norfolk be in worse shape as a American football fan than a soccer fan in Blackburn? Moron.