It DOES matter however, if a member of the opposing team controls the ball. Opposing team member must control the ball in order to reset the OS situation, deflection off other team member does not change OS status.
are you guys having fun with this discussion becasue i am about to kick myself in the balls reading this!!!
Regardless of the deflection from the keeper's punt how are the opposing teams players at midfield offside? The ball was played from close to the their attacking goal line they were. They are by definition not even in offside position. Only the keepers player standing at midfield even have a chance of being offside, or am I missing something from this strange conversation?
rufus...u the man! This is an absolutely ludicrous discussion. Are you guys serious? Sometimes the mental manifestation (or is it mastur______?) on this site is truly incredilous! Good night, Grace.
Ya, this did get a bit convaluted, but if you go to my original scenario, I said that one player, from each team, was in OSP, and that is all I said regarding position on the field. We all know what those requirements are so I said nothing else in regards to their position on the field. Let's try this... Let's use team "A" and team "B" for example. If keeper on team "A" has possession of the ball in his own PA and then kicks the ball, then his OSP teammate (who is somewhere in the other half of the field) would be ineligible because an OSP player cannot play a ball kicked by his teammate... easy enough. The kicked ball is deflected off opponent...this does not change the status of OSP player "A", as a deflection off opponent does not reset the status, he is still ineligible. He is not allowed to run up to midfield (or anywhere else on the pitch) and play the ball. But remember, player "B" was in OSP as well (let's say he was behind keeper and all other players.) Since the ball was deflected/touched by one of his teammates, then OSP player "B" is ineligible as well, so he is not allowed to run play the ball no matter where the ball goes on the pitch, because law 11 says that a player in OSP cannot play the ball that has been played or touches his teammate. Since the ball is in the air and the OS situation has not yet been reset, they are both ineligible.
So you are saying player B is not up near half line but closer to the goal line than both the 2nd last defender and the ball, which is in the opposing keeper's possession. Now I get it. For some reason I was envisioning player B already at midfield and that was throwing me off.
The determination is needed for the I&G though. In the, admittedly rare, situation when a "defending player" leaves the FoP during play.
Back to the "trick" corner kick. Actually, the same "trick" could be used on any free kick. (Did someone mention this earlier?) And it doesn't seem to be an issue for such. Why not?
I mentioned it, but that horse turned into hamburger so I just stopped talking about it. Does it really make a difference though, attackers and defenders are both considered to be on the line at which they left? Is there some further restriction for "defenders"? I am honestly asking because I don't have access to my publications at the moment.
Just that for the "defending player" he is considered to be on the goal line until the next stoppage so the question is who is a "defending player", how is that determined, does that determination ever change and would such a change make any difference to him being judged to be on the goal line. Mainly an obscure issue perhaps but I find it interesting that it was included in the LotG withour pretty much any guidance.
I think this one can be figured out because you do have a defending goal line associated with each team. I honestly think this concept of "being on the goal line until the next stoppage" [my emphasis] needs to be at least reworded. It says leaves without permission for any reason, that to me implies during the normal course of play. Is that really what this interpretation was meant for, to almost eliminate there being a chance for offside until the next stoppage just because a player couldn't stop their momentum from leaving over the goal line? To take it a step further if two defenders leave due to momentum then there can be no offside for the opposing team till the next stoppage. Seems a bit extreme to me. This has probably been discussed before but I am trying to type this between working so I didn't go looking.
This is exactly the same as players acting like they kicked the ball and put it into play on a FK in front of the goal.
Interesting point. I just usually don't give the caution in either the trick corner or the FK trick just because I don't see it as an intentional act by the defenders. I will most certainly do a re-take if the encroachment has an impact, but rarely (if any that I can remember) would I give the caution. I know, I know, this isn't by the book and people can cry about it and drag this thread to page ten.
Or better yet, if you're sure the attackers put it in play, give a throw in depending on which side of the flag the defender kicked the ball!
Sorry, but that's just wrong. The only player not allowed to participate in play is the opponent that was in offside position when the ball punted by the keeper glanced off an opponent. The keeper's teammate is free to play the ball. BTW, JA did answer the question asked about the corner kick being trickery: Trickery cannot occur at a corner kick under any but the most unusual circumstances.
I re-read your question. Are you saying at the moment the keeper kicked the ball he had a teammate in an offside position and at the moment the ball glanced off an opponent there was a teammate of the opponent's in an offside position? I'm having a hard time seeing how these 2 players could be anywhere near each other. The keeper's teammate would have to be past the midfield line in the attacking half. The opponent's teammate would have to be between the opponent and the keeper's goal line AND there could only be one of his opponents nearer the keeper's goal line then he is. Theoretically you are correct but the 2 players are going to be 50-70 yards apart
Yes that is what he was saying. I couldn't visualize the play either. It is possible, just very unlikely to occur. I would love to see it called and see how they restart though. I'm sorry but... what?
Sorry for the confusion, but yes, in order for both players to be in OSP, they would by definition have to be in their attacking half of the field. I think when I said both players were in OSP, that it left the impression that they were close to each other in the same half of the field-Sorry. whew!
If you're 100% sure that the ball is in play, and the defender kicks it over the touch line (as opposed to the goal line), give a throw in. Get it now?
Yes, now I do. Sorry I was thinking that you meant that ball leaving from the corner kick, which doesn't make any sense, because that make the whole "play" a moot point.