I had a high school coach quietly inform me that his team was going to do it at some point in the match, and they did with no positive effect. Considering the skill level of his team I could have come up with dozens of more useful things for them to practice.
I saw this once in a College game. I was AR 1. First player sets it down, slight kick and runs toward the new teammate coming over to take the kick. Ref has no idea that this happened as he is sorting out the jostling in the Area. When he looks over, I make sure to make eye contact and waive my finger in a circle motion (kinda like you do by your ear when you are implying someone is crazy) in front of my jersey so he sees it. He gets a puzzled look until he sees the new player now dribbling the ball away, and then I put the thumbs up signal. He whistle was going up to his mouth, but he was able to put it all the pieces together before blowing the whistle. Not standard signals, or covered in the pregame, but it worked.
Had a hs team attempt this, but wanted to use me as the foil: one walks over and places the ball, then nudges it, then tells me "ball's in play, ok?" I nodded. Teammate trots up, and asks me "is the ball in play?" I stonewalled and gave no indication either way, not feeling right about being part of any deception, however legal. The kicker, being unsure of what his teammate had done, just took a regular corner. He complained about me not answering him: " it's a yes or no question." I'm still not sure if I should have answered or not.
Here's the big problem with the trick corner: Let's say an attacker sets up a trick corner, but the defender realizes what's happening. What now? The defender can then rush in and try to get the ball, but by doing so is counting on both the fact that it is indeed a trick corner, as well as that the referee recognizes it as such. If either one is not true, the defender is potentially facing a yellow card for failing to respect the distance. Personally, I would be unlikely to caution a defender who legitimately (but incorrectly) believes it's a trick corner, but the player has no way of knowing that. So the safest thing to do is to let the attackers gain an unfair advantage with the trick corner, because the only alternative is to chance a yellow card for doing nothing at all wrong. It's a dirty play in my opinion, and it should be banned (by issuing a ruling that it constitutes unsporting behavior). Either that or an official ruling should be made that a caution for failing to respect distance cannot be issued to a defender who has an honest but mistaken belief that the ball is in play, but that leads to its own set of problems.
I'VE GOT IT! You've given me a great idea... Change the rules slightly so that we simply treat the CK as we do a free-kick. If a player wishes to take a quick kick, they can, otherwise it becomes ceremonial and a whistle is required before the kick. Defender then knows when he/she must respect distance just like a FK. 1st touch after whistle blows, ball is in play, no more ambiguity. It's a perfect, simple, non-intrusive solution based upon precedent from the LOTG...genius! I will continue to delight in paroxysms of delusion until my "perfect" solution is systematically ripped to shreds by my peers. (my apologies to the mods for the all caps)
This is only an issue if you are stuck in teh "book referee" mode. Read the game, read the players. If it's the first time the defender does this, think it through, maybe he's right and you missed it, read him, read the attackers, read the game: do you need a caution here to control the game? Why give it? To what benefit to you and the game? Once done, whatever you've done, you've established precedent. Attackers can't use a trick corner htat doesn't work to get out of being caught, you saw it put into play, they've told you they do this, either verbally or with a previous use, the ball IS in play, so if the defender also figures it out and charges, the attacker can NOT then say "I didn't want to do that" and expect you to bail him out. It's either in play or not. We worry way to much about this stuff. If you saw it in play, then go with it, it's a legal, albeit somewhat useless play, at best it works once a game.
Should we also ban the situation where three players line up to take a FK and do the little dance and act like they are going to kick it, then the third guy comes in and kicks it right into the wall? That's a trick play, right? Not as dirty? I think it was Jim Allen I originally heard it from but it is a player's legitimate goal to deceive their opponents and there is nothing inherently unsporting about it. I think the trick corner is stupid and gives no advantage, much like a short corner does in many situations. I'm not a coach, though, so I just sit back and watch when they do something like this. As to giving a caution for FRD, be a thinking referee and realize why the defender encroached. Verbally announce that we're doing the CK again, defender don't do that and get on with it.
It functions esentially as a FK, but technically speaking, it is not a FK. (I'm trying to think if there is any reason that it matters that is not technically a FK; the only difference that I can think of is that it is not possible to be offside directly from the CK.)
You are not required to stop play for a CK with a whistle, while on a FK you are. Likewise you are not required to start play with a whistle as you are on FK's (when wall has been ordered to appropriate distance). You can restart CK with a whistle though (as the laws only state that you don't have to) and, although it would be an excessive use of the whistle, it would not necessarily be contradictory to the LOTG, but would prevent the discussed tactic without having to alter the LOTG at all. If that is, you are on the side of this discussion that it need be stopped.
A CK IS a free kick , all the same rules apply, it can be quick and it can be ceremonial, when ceremonial you will have to restart with a whistle. The argument on you don't stop for it with a whistle, we're cutting threads here, but a free kick is the restart after certain stoppages, so is a CK. Semantics, I know, but one is the result of hte other, they aren't the same. a CK is a free kick, true you can't be offside, but you also can't be offside on a FK taken from the goal line, that's all a CK is. They just consider the entire arc the corner (that's why the line is 11 yards from the corner,
A CK may be a free kick, but it is not a Free Kick as set out in Law 13. This is really all semantics, however, of very little practical import. It is not quite true that "all the same rules apply" -- most of them apply, but some are a slightly different (no OS, which occurs as a real issue occaisonally, and I hadn't thought of 10 yards from the arc instead of 10 yards from the ball.
I agree; like I said however, the player has no way of knowing this. According to a strict interpretation of the laws, failing to respect the distance earns a caution. Remember that, to players, referees aren't thinking beings who would ever actually take into account the circumstances before reaching for the dreaded yellow card, and they certainly won't listen to reason after the fact. Frankly, I don't blame them for their wariness—as several people here have shown, sometimes these “trick corners” are so good they even fool the ref. And anyway, counting on the perceptiveness of the referee to understand exactly what is going on when a potential booking for misconduct hangs in the balance probably leaves the players feeling a bit like Sean Connery in Hunt For Red October. Legal or illegal isn't the issue for me. It's unsporting in my opinion, in that it attempts to gain what I see as an unfair advantage by deceiving the opponent as to the state of play. Again, I understand that my opinion and the opinions of FIFA and/or USSF don't necessarily coincide, and I would of course not card a player taking a trick corner, even though I think it deserves one. Not even in the same category. There's nothing inherently wrong with a “trick” play or trying to deceive the opponent. The problem is with an attempt to deceive the opponent about the current status of play. To my mind, it would be the same thing as if a player were to do a two-finger whistle in an attempt to stop an opponent on a breakaway. Is there anything in the laws that prohibits that? Technically, no. Is it a legitimate deception? Absolutely not. I guess I just think that, for it to be a fair competition, the players have the right to know what the current status of the game is at all times, or to at least have it be clearly discernable from the context. It's also a problem that often teams will try to use the trick corner to get two bites at the apple—as socal put it, they want to play Schroedinger's cat. If you can catch them trying to claim the ball hadn't been put into play when you know for a fact that they were attempting a trick corner and had simply failed in their deception, wouldn't you think a caution might be warranted? Proving that is next to impossible, however, because it requires discerning intent—the exact same action can constitute putting the ball into play or simply repositioning it (or even accidental contact) based solely on what the player had in mind at the moment of contact, which is impossible to tell. Since you can't really ever know for sure, it's hard to justify a caution for a player who tells you that, gosh, he had no intention of playing the ball at all, ref—even if you are all but certain that it's a flat-out lie. Something about allowing the players to compound a deception with another deception in order to escape punishment rubs me the wrong way.
Fixing this in the Laws by treating a CK like a FK (complete with whistle for ceremonial restart) would be one good approach. I suggest three others: Require that the ball leave the corner arc in order to be in play. Require that the ball be positioned with the hands. Require that the ball be positioned by the referee. My favorite is number 1. A corner kick is in some ways similar to a goal kick. On a GK, the ball has to leave the penalty area before it is in play. Just apply the same rule to a CK, and it removes the ambiguity as to whether or not the ball is in play with little or no visible change in procedures. - QC
I suspect that on the rare occaisons that most of us find the need to manage players too close to the ball, that we do whistle once it's ready . . . but that is pretty rare with a CK b/c players don't tend to get that close, especially at higher levels. I'm a great fan of #1 and have suggested it in similar discussions before -- the game just doesn't need situations where it is unclear if the ball is in play. (As to #2 and #3 . . . IMHO they are both poor ideas that do more harm than the (rare) problem they are trying to solve for. The ball is positioned with the foot for kicks all over the place all the time, and this would become silly . . . and the idea of the referee having to run to the corner adds a silly delay and pointless formality to the restart.)
Sure, fair nuff, if looking at it from the stand point of after the ball is kicked, then ya, they are basically the same.
I'd actually argue we are discussing a solution in search of a problem. Look at how many refs have even SEEN the play in question. A CK is nothing more than a free kick except a fixed location on the field. Offside is even the same! On a CK the ball is effectivel on the goal line, so you can't be infront of it, so offside IS in effect, but due to the position of the ball its impossible on the kick. All other rules apply. There's no need for a "solution" here.
No it's not -- that's why the LOTG make the exception. If the ball is placed the full yard off the goal line, it is not uncommon for another attacker to line up in OSP at the time of the CK. (I.e., with a foot on the goal line when no defnder [or only one] is on the goal line.)
So I am a little confused as to why you believe that it is ok for the defenders to deceive their opponents but then you wouldn't give the caution for FRD. Isn't that part of the deception that this might happen. This play really isn't different than the step over that many teams do on regular free kicks in that it is up to the defender to decide when it is safe to move in at the ball. Actually the whistle would be no different than a player yelling at an opponent to unfairly distract them. It is technically illegal according to Law 12. 12.28.1 "When a member of the defending team verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart" or "Commits an act which, in the opinion of the referee, shows a lack of respect for the game (e.g., aggressive attitude, inflammatory behavior, or taunting)." I realize it uses the term verbally but unless you are using the strictest of interpretation, you can obviously see that this would apply.
I'm glad you quoted that section of the ATR. Coincidentally I had occasion earlier this week to look it up, and it was only then that I focused for the first time on the fact that this language limits itself to "a member of the defending team." Interesting that it's apparently OK for an attacker to "verbally distract an opponent." In the classic ball-in-the-air "I got it, let it go" iteration of "verbal distraction" USB, who's the attacker and who's the defender? Does it depend on whose team put it in the air?
I noticed that but as you said, who gets to qualify the defender and attacker... me. I have the power!
The ATR is not the same as the LOTG—it's an interpretation, and you're re-interpreting an interpretation (I understand that the ATR may be the official position of USSF and thus binding, but your interpretation of the ATR is subject to substantially more leeway in that regard ) . Nothing in the actual laws expressly forbids a player whistling. And honestly, I think it's quite a stretch to label a deliberate attempt to deceive an opponent that play has stopped by whistling merely “verbally distracting” (I don't even really agree with you about it being “verbal”, but never mind that). Putting that aside, though: Let's say that, for whatever reason, whistling is not deemed to be “verbal”. Would you say that the act of attempting to deceive an opponent into thinking that play has stopped by whistling constitutes unsporting behavior specifically due to the attempt to deceive? I would think it does, and given that, I don't think it's consistent that attempting to convince an opponent that play has not yet started is totally fine.