Anangono career death watch

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by snkscore, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    I just want to record my pessimism over the pending Anangono signing.

    I've been disappointed by so many of our signings like this, where I thought the guy would be good, that I'm now convinced he's going to suck.

    So, without ever seeing him play, or ever even watching a highlight reel, I'm going to go ahead and state that it's a mistake, purely based on his wikipedia page, and our club history.

    If by some miracle he turns out to be good, I'll be glad I'm wrong.

    So to all of you: make your prediction now!
     
  2. Salvatore Giuseppe

    May 4, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago
    4 years when he has won the golden boot and some team in Europe pays a nice fee to get him
     
  3. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Sounds like Puppo.
     
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  4. krolpolski

    krolpolski Member+

  5. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    He will be better than our last 3 DPs. :geek:
     
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  6. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I say people should quit adding pressure because he's a DP. He's three years (?) from his prime. Give him three years to prove himself.

    If MacDonald had been 24 when we signed him I would hope we would just be considering this year a sophomore slump.
     
  7. Salvatore Giuseppe

    May 4, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago

    To be fair, according to Leon, they talked to both his current and former club coaches, the Ecuadorian manager, and to (presumably) Schelotto, who has coached against him. In addition to having scouted him in game. You can't do much more than that.

    You guys are all so pessemistic about signings like these. Just because he doesn't cost Keane money doesn't mean he can't succeed big time in this league, and that has been proved year in and year out in golden boot and mvp races.

    I also don't get why you have no faith in the FO to find a good player at this pay level, and yet feel comfortable with them putting $3m on the line for a big star, who's likelihood of success would be just as unknown, at the added risk of destabilizing club finanaces
     
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  8. loonixxx

    loonixxx Member+

    Chicago Red Stars
    Aug 28, 2004
    Soccer Limbo
    Club:
    Jagiellonia Bialystok SSA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Prediction: Bust.

    Edit: I'll be happy to eat my words though.
     
  9. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Juan Pablo Angel may never have won the "golden boot" but his ~60 goals in ~100 games for New York speaks for itself.

    This is a fallacy though. A player who has consistently proven themselves at the highest levels is not just as likely of success as an unknown. That's a terrible representation of the situation. No one expects every signing to work but to pretend that spending more money doesn't get you access to better players is pretty silly.

    Yes, some 24 year old on the planet right now might be better than Messi and he's simply gone undiscovered. Finding that player though, (even if you talked to both his current and former club coaches, his National Team manager and to a former MLS player who has coached against him in addition to having scouted him in game") is nearly impossible. There are more teams in this world looking for that type of hidden gem than there are hidden gems to be found.

    On the flip side, you can simply buy a great player if you're willing to spend more than someone else. That's much easier than finding a hidden gem.

    And let's stop pretending that these two types of signings are mutually exclusive. They're not. They can and should be done concurrently while still investing in an academy so we can simultaneously nurture our own hidden gem.

    As for the club's finances, when you're a billionaire not a lot of people are worried about your finances. However, if the FO is signing bad players then the finances of everyone who buys a ticket are collectively destabilized. Our investment in the club is wasted every time they make a bad signing. That's my money, your money, everyone's money being wasted.
     
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  10. ionprovisioner

    Nov 23, 2003
    Flint, Michigan
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    QF mf'ing T
     
  11. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL

    I'm actually a proponent of signing "young DPs" like this, assuming they are actually worth their salary, as opposed to dropping big money for a retiring star.

    In terms of him being a DP, I don't think anyone expects this guy to be a world beater, but if you are the highest paid player on a team, you should at least be one of the better players on the team, and not someone who rides the bench. I don't think that type of pressure is unfair. Expecting him to score 20 goals / year? I don't expect anything like that, I hope others don't.

    Was MacDonald's first year good enough to consider this a sophomore slump? I think his first year was below par, and we were hoping that he'd find his stride this year, but he regressed.
     
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  12. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I say by this time next year, he will be riding the bench and we will be looking to loan him out.:)
     
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  13. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    Shouldn't that be expected?

    Were the people who did the talking the same ones who talked to the coaches of Puppo, Robyao, Castillo, Fernandez, MacDonald, Nazarit etc?

    I don't think anyone is pessimistic about this guy because he isn't going to cost big money. We are pessimistic because to me his club history doesn't indicate strongly that he'll be a success, and our FO had a history of signing bad South Americans.

    This is true, but I think a few things come into play.

    1) If you sign an unknown guy, you really are trying to find that diamond in the rough, so you're relying on your scouting team much more. I've never worked a single day in the soccer business, but I can tell you that Carlton Cole would be a very good CF in MLS. I don't think anyone would tell you that signing him would be too much of a risk.

    2) If you sign a big name player, part of the return is the name itself. If we sign Ronaldinho, and it turns out that he's just gone over the hill and is just barely beating out Dilly Duka for playing time, he'd still be a giant marketing bonus, even if on the field he isn't worth $5MM.

    3) By using our DP slots of these "quasi-DP" players, the FO is sending them message that it really doesn't want to spend money on players like all the other successful teams. That's disappointing.
     
  14. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL

    That would fit the pattern.
     
  15. sWo97

    sWo97 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nazrit was younger and higher rated.
    The biggest worry about this signing is it's identical to the last few DP signings. When he doesn't preform, like the rest, no one will buy him and only a loan will be possible.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    -Albert Einstein
     
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  16. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope he is finally the guy we have been waiting for, a big time consistent goal scorer to compliment Magee. Until he proves himself since this regime has not been successful in the past I can't get too excited.
     
  17. rooked

    rooked Member+

    Jan 21, 2013
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Since I am not optimistic about our chances to make the playoffs this year I will spend my optimism on this signing. I think he will be a contributor over the next couple of years.
     
  18. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    I am optimistic about all of our signings. However, I don't like the DP because of a transfer fee" mentality. Our thinking and ambition are just way to small.

    "...likelihood of success would be just as unknown" is simply untrue. While the future is always unknown, the "likelihood" of success of someone with a track record of success would be higher than a completely unknown player, since the player has, well, a track record of success.

    Second, the big teams have scouts everywhere trying to find the undiscovered "diamond in the rough". MLS does not and can not compete in finding "the next Messi" or even "the next Suarez".

    As for "putting $3m on the line for a big star" there are two advantages to having a "big star".
    1) the likelihood of success is greater, since they are "big stars" and, therefore, have the track record of success (see Blanco).
    2) there is the buzz, increase in attendance, increase in merchandise sales, increase in media coverage (especially if there is relevant ethnic media coverage) that comes with "big stars" (see Blanco).

    I agree that there is a big risk in dropping huge money on one player, but the team needs the buzz and we, as Fire fans, deserve it.
     
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  19. burningfire

    burningfire Member+

    May 15, 2009
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    West side. West side. West side. West side.
     
  21. LocoGueroFutobolista

    Apr 18, 2004
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    you win the thread LOL
     
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  22. loonixxx

    loonixxx Member+

    Chicago Red Stars
    Aug 28, 2004
    Soccer Limbo
    Club:
    Jagiellonia Bialystok SSA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Upper deck. Upper deck. Upper deck. ;)
     
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  23. goldclover

    goldclover Member+

    Mar 25, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
     
  24. RadioGonzo

    RadioGonzo Member+

    Nov 16, 2009
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok I checked out this guy in Football Manager 2013, which probably has better scouting than the Fire.
    More interesting to me than his stats (which I've juxtaposed here with those of the chronically underrated and yet still clutch in computer games, Iron Mike) are his contract details.
    We are allegedly paying a transfer fee and that's why he will be a DP.

    [​IMG]

    According to transfermarkt he signed for to "Barcelona SC Guayaquil" on July 12.
    His prior contract either ended the end of June or the end of July.
    Either way: at first glance it would appear we fucked ourselves out of a free agent here somehow or maybe he was holding out for higher wages and we called his bluff and we are ending up saving money somehow--although we could just loan out MacDonald keep the cap hit but at least get a piece of that over $9,000 a week we are paying him not to play. I am seriously skeptical about this, especially looking at these quotes from Leon. It seems to be like a carbon copy of the Puppo situation: low-risk, low-reward, which would be alright with me if we are at least moneyballin' it. Paying a transfer fee for a guy who JUST signed because his contract JUST ended is pretty much stupid. I struggle to find a situation in which it would not be stupid. It's stupid.
    IF that's what happened here (please by all means provide me the corrective information,) it is some amateur-hour antics.

    I look forward to being proven wrong on this one. I also look forward to this dude racking up 2-4 years of 10-20 goals for us and then being sold on for some hefty profit. That still wouldn't change the fact that if we wanted him we probably should have signed him before July 12th.
     
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