An interesting argument in favor of the electoral college

Discussion in 'Elections' started by superdave, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends. If they support his side, it's upholding the law. Against him and they are "picking".
     
  2. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    About increasing the size of the House of Representatives...

    The UK House of Commons has 650 members for about 62.2 million people.

    New Hampshire has 400 members for 1.3 million people

    The U.S. House has 435 members for 314.6 million people

    I think we can afford to increase the size of the House.
     
  3. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nothing in the Constitution defines how EC votes are determined other than by saying it's up to each state.

    I'd love to see a big state like California or Texas or New Jersey adopt some kind of proportional vote, so that a smaller party has a chance for a couple votes. No, that won't win them anything, but it might give a platform to get more diverse views out there. And that would be a good thing.
     
  4. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Germany has 82 mil. inhabitants.

    Bundestag normally has 599 seats. This day due to overhang seats it has around 620.

    A new voting law for next year will likely increase the number of seats up to around 700.

    Of course you can.
     
  5. GiuseppeSignori

    Jun 4, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't the decision explicitly state that it couldn't be used as precedent for any future case? Seems like they weren't so sure they had correctly interpreted the law themselves.
     
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  6. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    Meh, politics in New Mexico is becoming boring. Even our "swing" house district is no longer competative. Long gone are the days when John Kerry was stumping in Espanola and W. in Roswell during the final week of the campaign.

    We might as well sign up for that national popular vote thing.
     
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  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    EDIT: Giuseppe beat me to it.

    Even the Supremes didn't believe their interpretation was correct. That's why they said that you couldn't use their reasoning in any other case. As a liberal, I would have gotten some solace from using their reasoning and having liberal advocacy groups sue their states to make sure each jurisdiction had the same voting system. That would have enfranchised voters from poor counties throughout the nation. But, of course, the Supremes preemptively said you couldn't do that. Because their ruling was bullshit.
     
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
     
  9. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't it the samething?
     
  10. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess it would be nice to see some history on why we set up the EC in the 1st place.

    http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_history.php

     
    NMMatt repped this.
  11. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I think the bolded part still stands, except "largest, most populous state" would be replaced with "most densely populated and politically homogenous urban centers" and "smaller ones" with "less densely populated, more politically diverse areas".
     
  12. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mexico (corruption and fixed elections aside).

    I imagine most countries with a President have Direct elections (if democratic) Most Parliamentarian elections do not have direct elections (Canada and England)

    France has both, a President elected directly and a Prime minister elected British Style.

    In some other countries, the President appoints the PM or the PM appoints the President.
     
  14. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    i'd been taught that though the repartition of electoral votes was a gesture towards smaller states, the mechanism of voting by an electoral college at a date later than the actual public polling was due to the logistics problems of rounding up and counting all the ballots over what was even then a large and disjointed country, especially considering the infrastructure and technology of the time. a lot could happen between voting day and investiture.

    in france the first thing people ask me when discussing the election is "what's all this about les grands électeurs?" they have the idea that these people are real elected public figures (though shadowy ones) who have a real choice in the matter. i have to explain to them that their term grands électeurs is absolutely flawed and they should substitute it with voix électorales. then they understand that the president is elected directly, though by a kind of federal first past the post system and not proportionally.

    to look at this question you have to take into account not only the distinction between head of gov't and head of state (the potus is both) but also the fact that the two functions vary greatly country by country. moreover the respective roles are rarely clearly defined, and evolve both over time and according to the individuals in place.

    in france the president is chosen in a two-round direct election. but the president names the premier ministre. in fact a prime minister (who is not a magister) is by definition a kind of servant to the head of state. in the UK (as in most monarchies) he (or in extremely unfortunate cases she) is invested by the sovereign... who obviously however has no more carte blanche than the electoral college: under pain of disappearance corps et biens of the monarchy the leader of the parliamentary majority is chosen. that's why the heads of parties in britain are more important than in france where they are little more than bathroom monitors for controlling internal squabbles.
     
  15. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Florida is still not called?

    Do we really need them in the union?
     
  16. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    i say we dug the panama canal in the wrong place. it should be the panama city canal. and it should 100 miles wide and 100 fathoms deep. and filled with every salty croc, great white and box jelly australia can spare. and pirates. indonesian pirates. with big cutlasses! and mines! don't forget the mines! and...
     
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  17. NickyViola

    NickyViola Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    They have to keep the Electoral College or make voting compulsory. My guy (Nobody) wins the popular vote every 4 years and I know they don't want that.
     
  18. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    I think the biggest misconception about the American constitution is that it was designed to govern something that in many ways resembled the European Union more than a single nation prior to the Civil War.
     
  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hey, we are all for entertainment... Disney World is just a metaphor for our legislators...
     
  20. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    disney world is entertainment for little kids... and indirectly for parents who like to see their kids having a good time...

    so are you saying we need to give 8 year olds the vote?
     
  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hey, I have a 4yo so Disney is king, but my wife and I enjoy the parks and the kids movies, not to mention that Disney owns ESPN, StarWars and so many other franchises targeted at different age groups...

    Don't be so patronizing...
     
  22. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ******** Mickey Mouse.
     
  23. Transparent_Human

    Oct 15, 2006
    Pale blue dot
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mauritius
    I hate disney and disneyworld
     
  24. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    If 8-year-olds voted, Republicans would never win an election, ever.

    Though it's going to devolve into chaos when everyone realizes Justin Bieber is Canadian.
     
  25. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    wait. isn't hawaii in canada? just like alaska?
     

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