all time spain

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by tony-soprano37, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. tony-soprano37

    tony-soprano37 Member

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    spain. th powerhouse on the international level for the last decade.
    amazingly all the years before the achieved nothing (okay on time european champios) allthough throughout history they have had some excellent players.
    i will list my all time spain and i will not include players who turned spanish like di stefano or puskas because they where past prime when they became spanish.

    goalkeeper : arconanda a very underrated keeper imo (he just edged out over zamora and casillas).
    leftback : camacho (since i play with a leftwinger he got in over gordillo who was more offensive then camacho.
    centre back : fernando hierro a very talented and allround player.
    centre back : guardiola
    left midfield : iniesta
    right midfield : pirri he got in over xavi because his defendign qualities where better then xavi's
    centre midfield : luis suarez (greatest spanish player ever) the man played and won several european finals with barcelona and inter.
    leftwinger : paco gento (the man won 6 european cups pffft 6, also one of the fastest players ever).
    rightwinger : amancio amaro arrived at real madrid just after the early glory years. still won a european cup and performed very good.
    striker : emilio butrageno

    actually this ain't a half bad team. very well balanced in offense and defense


  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    You missed out a right back

    Santamaria should be must start CB (Guardiola is not a CB)
    Striker: Raul should be the one (if not Di Stefano)
    CM: Xavi deserved the place (if not Di Stefano)
  3. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

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    I also will leave behind names like Di Stefano, Puskas, Kubala and Santamaria because they all played before for another NT.

    1st
    [​IMG]

    2nd
    [​IMG]

    3rd
    [​IMG]
    - I'm not a fan of Sergio Ramos, maybe he could be out.
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    That's a fair and reasonable choice. To be frank, I also had a hard time to consider if Di Stefano an Argentian player or Spanish (he started after but he played more games)

    Ramos is like a distort version of Gentile - Gentile did dirty tricks only when he man marked great players, Ramos did them more often


  5. tony-soprano37

    tony-soprano37 Member

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    no santamaria or di stefano i explained why. they played either for other countries or where past prime when joining spain.
    second : yes i forgot a rightback i am sorry its gonna be puyol.
    third : i know guardiola wasn't a pure centreback but he was versatile enough to play in that position at least imo
  6. tony-soprano37

    tony-soprano37 Member

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    actually the dirtyness of gentile is overrated. he was i agree sometiems over the edge but he never got a red card during his career. i know in those days more was allowed then today but still if he was only dirty as soem say he would have gotten red cards.
  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

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    Maniac i liked most your team, but it seems to ofensive minded to my taste.
    For the CB role, my first spot would be Quincoces, a real legend from old times and recognized as the #1 CB in his prime.
    I also, leave Amancio out and named another defensive player, maybe Segarra to made a more balanced squad.
    ChaChaFut repped this.
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    #1 in the world??
  9. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    You're right ... Gentile became famous (dirty) for a few games when he got assigned to MAN MARK Maradona and Zico in early 80s ... other than that he was a great DF .

    - from 70-90: Note that back then the idea of yellow and red card is NOT to protect a player, but to keep the "sportmanship" looking fair on the pitch ...
    ONLY at WC90, (coincidence after many assaults on Maradona at WC to SerieA) FIFA had changed the RULE to apply Y and R more severe in order to ""protect" good skill player

    - from 50 to 70: there was no yellow nor a clear rule to stop dirty players (look at PElE at WC66) and worst ... NO SUBSTITUTION allowed even when he got badly injured
  10. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

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    Quincoces had a highly reputation as a top defender in the 1st half of 30s. After the WC'34 he was named the #1.
    In Europe, some contenders should be Rosetta and Monzeglio. And for SA, Nasazzi and Domingos da Guia. I think that Quincoces level in that era was higher.
    Some of the above mentioned, are usual contenders in an AT team for their countries.

    btw, i don't remember any spaniard CB through history rated so highly (maybe Puyol/Pique, since i rated high Hierro as MF).
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    By who was he named #1? Was rating of players cross-nationally not very hard at that time?
  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

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    It was said in the WC (he was named in the best XI in many sources), and excluding SA, i think all contenders for the "Best world CB" were there. Also, being Quincoces an important factor for Real Madrid 2x champion and 2x second place in spanish league.

    btw, i agree that is a hardly election by that time. But, i think that you can agree that most contenders are mentioned (i add Sesta and some Czech).
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Can you maybe post once those ratings and all-star teams you have in a thread?
  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

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    I think it would be a good idea, created a thread for old Best XI in World Cups or other great tournaments or seasons (let's said before 70s, which are more hard to find)
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Do you know a few all star teams for 1934WC?

    Maybe an idea to open separate thread. Then I can also post what I found.
  16. Skorenzy

    Skorenzy Member

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    I found some interesting references with regard to Quincoces in the Mundo Deportivo archive at the time of the '34 WC.

    [1] In the edition of June 3rd it's reported that several French journalists (of L'Auto, the predecessor of L'Équipe, Paris Soir, L'Intransigeant) think very highly of the Spanish defense in general (praise for Zamora, Quincoces and Ciriaco) and they unanimously and indisputably see Quincoces as the best defender in Europe.




    [2] In the edition of June 10th they publish a European XI chosen by Lucien Gamblin, former French international and now sportswriter for L'Auto, on the 9th. The criteria is that the player must have participated in the WC.

    guardameta, Planitka (Checoeslovaquia); [František Plánička]
    defensas, Sestas (Austria) y Quincoces (España); [Karl Sesta - Jacinto Quincoces]
    medios, Wagner (Austria), Szuce (Hungría) y Van Heel (Francia); [Franz Wagner - György Szűcs - Puck van Heel]
    delanteros, Guaitia (Italia), Regueiro (España), Lángara (España), Mejedly (Checoeslovaquia) y Orsi (Italia). [Enrique Guaita - Luis Regueiro - Isidro Lángara - Oldřich Nejedlý - Raimundo Orsi]

    [I'm guessing the writer of the article mistakenly put P. van Heel as French, either way that's quite a glaring mistake.]

    He also offers some explanation as to why he didn't include certain players,
    - Zamora: [not sure I completely understand this] basically because of his age??? "Justifica la no inclusión de Zamora por entender que la juventud de Planitka [Plánička] le hace más acreedor al puesto, pese a la actuación formidable de Florencia del guardameta español [...]"
    - Monti: even though he considers him the best midfielder at the moment ("el mejor medio centro actual") he deems him ineligible for the selection because of his violent and dangerous play unbecoming of an international player ("su juego violento y peligroso le hace indeseable como internacional").

    In the same publication there's a special article on Brazilian football and the Brazil NT (because they were Spain's first opponents in the WC), incl. Top 5 rankings per position by a Brazilian journal called "A Patria". I could post this in another thread if anyone is making one about old rankings or selections, and if anyone's interested.




    [3] In the edition of July 4th there's an article where they quote Hugo Meisl (coach of the Austrian Wunderteam) as saying: "Yo creo que el español Quincoces fué el mejor hombre de la Copa del Mundo del futbol [...]".

    Judging from these sources, he certainly seemed highly rated among French journalists, and Meisl even goes as far as to claim him as best player at the World Cup.
  17. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Very informative. :thumbsup:
    Could you post the link of your sources please?
  18. Skorenzy

    Skorenzy Member

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    Oh my bad I thought I'd included them.

    They're in PDF format;

    [1] page 1, article entitled "En Francia se han asombrado. Quincoces el mejor defensa de Europa"
    [2] page 3, article entitled "El equipo de Europa, según Lucien Gamblin"
    [3] page 1, article entitled "Ne bougeons plus... Quincocès, le plus brilliant arrière de la Coupe du Monde" (more on the love affair of French journalists with Quincoces (and also the Hugo Meisl quote), very interesting article, even for my limited knowledge of Spanish)

    Also in [2] on the same page there's the entire special report on Brazilian football.
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Do you also know more about all star teams? IMO (and I'm 90-99% sure) the ones mentioned on wikipedia until 1990WC are false/incorrect. Since 1994WC they are correct.
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Interesting that Sindelar and Meazza are not included. Did he mention them at all?
  21. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    After the WC semifinal Sindelar was critizied by the Austrian newspapers for blowing his chances, lacking morale and toughness.
    The foreign press agreed. Corriere dello Sport called the Austrian forwards 'chokers', GdS commented after the game vs Italy that Sindelar had good 15 mins, but gets easily frustrated when losing the ball and doesn't fight for it.
    Swiss newspaper Sport: "Austrias forwards are physically weak, didn't use their body, could be labeled as cowards."

    The two players that were highlighted on the Italian team both after the SF and Final were Orsi and Ferrari, not Meazza.

    This evaluation is also present in the Austrian newspaper. Starts prasiing Monti by saying that he is still one of the best midfielder despite his age, then continues with one big paragraph about how dirty, ruthless and dangerous his style of play is.


    If have only looked at some of the articles, but the opinions about who the best players were seem to be similar. (Planicka, Orsi, Wagner and Sesta were highly touted in Austria and are also included by the French writer)

    Makes the fake team on wikipedia look pretty awful.
    Skorenzy and msioux75 repped this.
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Can you maybe also post the links or sources? Think I read once something similar in the 'Arbeiter Zeitung' archive link you once posted (wanted to know more about how the Wunderteam was seen in Austria itself).
  23. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    No, it's called 'Sport-Tagblatt'. http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?aid=wst
    Daily and Sports only. (there is nothing like that in Austria right now/after WWII)
    5-7 pages about football in each issue.

    The 'Arbeiter Zeitung' is from the 50s, but it isn't sports exclusive and the articles aren't as detailed.
    ChaChaFut repped this.
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Thanks - I also remember similar observations on the thread you started that also had details about Ernst Ocwirk's XI for one of the World Cups IIRC. Seemingly both Sindelar and Meazza made their name before that World Cup (a few years before initially) and may have starred more in the European Inter-Club competitions. Meazza may have had a better World Cup in 1938 because I know that Piola the centre-forward hailed Meazza's contributions in a creative inside-forward role.
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Do you mean the Mitropa Cup?

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