Thanks bro!!! I'm really enjoying and learning a lot with your teams. It would help me to updated some threads of mine
Just out of curiosity In 1996, the Revista Placar made an election on the All-Time Team Brazil with a vote of 64 people, including journalists, players, coaches and other famous. Three changes compared to the team PeruFC: ↑ Gérson ↓ Cerezo ↑ Zizinho ↓ Zico ↑ Leônidas ↓ Ronaldo Votes of famous players: Di Stéfano Barbosa; Djalma Santos, Domingos da Guia, Orlando, Nilton Santos; Zito, Didi, Gérson; Garrincha, Pelé, Zagallo Schiaffino Gilmar; Djalma Santos, Carlos Alberto, Domingos da Guia, Nilton Santos; Falcão, Zizinho, Pelé; Garrincha, Ademir, Pelé Just Fontaine Gilmar; Carlos Alberto, Bellini, Ricardo Gomes, Nilton Santos; Zito, Pelé, Gérson; Garrincha, Romário e Tostão Kubala Gilmar; Djalma Santos, Nilton Santos; Zito, Didi, Zico, Rivellino; Garrincha, Vavá, Pelé, Zagallo Platini Taffarel; Carlos Alberto, Luis Pereira, Junior; Falcão, Zico, Gérson, Rivellino; Jairzinho, Pelé, Romário
Well remembered Lucas Gomes! Here's a link with the full article: Placar's Brazil All-Time Team (Pages 54 to 67)
Well different people have different point of view and it's hard to justify which is better and who made the "accurate" point in selection While I agree that Cerezo was NOT a good DM selection for Brazil all time (in fact, he was not nor will ever be near to TOP23 Brazil all time) Gerson is also a "media" choice not a true team selection per se. He was better than Cerezo in mMF surely, but with Didi + Zico + Pele dropping back it would be so redundant. Zizinho could be an option over Zico in theory. However in reality, I am not sure how he would work outwith Didi and Pele in a crowded midfield and all 3 want to have more balls! Zico style did not require more balls per se. Now if one want to add Zizinho and Gerson in, then both Didi and Zico should be out !?? Leonidas was a mythical figure in prewar era. Not many known for sure how he was in actual games, especially that era was WIDE OPEN PLAY. Again, this is more like a STATS driven selection (since he had good stats for Brazil). In other hand Ronaldo was PROVEN great at 2 WCs, 2 Copas and 2 best leagues (SerieA + liga) to justify his selection more. IMO, if Ronaldo was given a huge open field (like Leonidas era) he would be truely UNSTOPPABLE. I would choose Ronaldo over Leonisdas for that - (again, we all lack of Leonidas real footage )
In all these elections made famous, the main objective is to select the best players and not the best team (defense / attack, fit, etc). Look at the Kubala team haha I agree about Zizinho / Zico and changes, but we must emphasize that he, Ademir, Danilo and Barbosa are underestimated (not by you, but by many) due to loss of the World Cup 1950. How would the recognition of these players if Brazil had won that match against Uruguai? Leonidas is much remembered for his famous stories in brazilian football and their performance in the World Cup 1938. Ronaldo was not remembered because the election was made in 1996, but today it is clear that he has a place on this team.
Finally, I've put to Falcao in the starting lineup instead of Toninho Cerezo. Accordingly, I've added to the squad to Jairzinho instead of Danilo Alvim: 01 GK GILMAR 04 CB CARLOS ALBERTO 23 SW DOMINGOS da Guia 02 RB DJALMA SANTOS 12 LB NÍLTON SANTOS 06 CM DIDÍ 15 CM FALCAO 08 AM ZICO 07 RW GARRINCHA 10 FW PELÉ 09 CF RONALDO 22 GK LEAO, Émerson 13 CB LUÍS PEREIRA 14 RB CAFÚ 03 LB ROBERTO CARLOS 05 CM TONINHO CEREZO 20 CM GÉRSON 18 AM SÓCRATES 17 AM RIVELINO 19 AM ZIZINHO 21 AM RONALDINHO 24 AM RIVALDO 16 RW JAIRZINHO 25 FW LEONIDAS 11 CF ROMÁRIO Complete article: http://glavisted.blogspot.com/2012/12/seleccion-historica-de-brasil.html I've also changed to Toninho Cerezo to the central midfielders category and I've added to the positional rankings to Andrade into the defensive midfielders and Waldo into the centre-forwards.
weird to see Pelé as a left FW. a 4-4-2 would fit better according to the starters technical skills. the defensive system looks a little bit weak. Only 2 real CBs (yes, I know that some other players could play as CB but It wouldn't be the same) and no real DH. Personally I would do this: Ronaldinho (probably I would keep ronaldinho because he could play as a LW as in Barcelona, but Rivellino could also do the left winger area as in the 70'WC) or Rivaldo OUT --> Mauro Ramos IN Jairzinho OUT --> *Zito, ***D. Alvim or **Fausto (also could play as CB but he didn't like it - ) IN
Maybe was better to take the picture just only as a guideline because I'm not putting Pelé as a left-forward, but in a free-role forward can constantly exchange his position with Ronaldo. Brazil as block has a very offensive profile and I think they've enough support plans for defending, the first is the possession of the ball. Then, despite there are only two centre-backs (Domingos and Luís Pereira), they can use Carlos Alberto as centre-back or align a 3-men defensive line with Djalma Santos, Carlos Alberto and Nílton Santos as full-backs. There isn't a real defensive midfielder but Toninho Cerezo is almost one, he had great defensive abilities and I still feel like he could be called as one. There's also Didí, Falcao and Gérson, who could play in a double pivot with a good defensive level, even also Zizinho. By the way, I believe the first support options to the centrebacks are Lúcio and Mauro Ramos and to the defensive midfielders Danilo Alvim, Zito and Clodoaldo.
My team: Leão; Djalma Santos Domingos da Guia, Luis Pereira, Nilton Santos; Zito, Didi, Zico; Garrincha, Pelé, Ronaldo But if I made a team with only the best, without thinking about consistency... in attack, Didi, Gerson; Garrincha, Pelé, Romário, Ronaldo
Thanks and it expalined why. I like your team the most, especially with Zito and Didi in center MF (for more ballance). I would imagine you run that team in a 4 2 2 2 fashion? Peru's team is also great and more of "beautiful football" or more "jogo bonito" (but probably weaker in defense for Zico, Falcao, Didi and Carlos Alberto are all attacking minded players) Fully agree that in attack the (arguably) two best pair FW in history would be so intimidate to any defense system (well in theory) ---- Ronaldo -------------- Romario -------------- ------------ Pele ------------------------ Garrincha ---------------------------- Didi -------------------- ------------------- Zito ------------------------------ N.Santos --------------------------------D.Santos ---------------D Guia ----- Perreira -------------- ------------------------ Leao -----------------------
In some moments, yes. Would this team. Pele and Ronaldo would be in constant movement. However, in this tactical, potential Zico would be limited only to give passes. Therefore, the team could stay with the Zito as DM, Gerson (get out, Zico) on the left side and Didi on the right side, both in the central line as CM. Nilton Santos would be free to attack. In front, Tostão could take the place of Ronaldo because he has an understanding with Pele. Tostão played in left side in 1970. Zico could play with Ronaldo and Romario, without Pelé and maybe without Garrincha because of the possible weakness of defense.
furthermore kubala was a atg player but has peanutsbrain. how can you play a normal balanced team with 7 attackers. 1 defending midfielder and 2 real defenders ?????
Translation error. I meant is that Brazil would not be consistent due to overload defensive ... Who did the defensive work in this team? only Gerson and Didi not be able =] but isn't a criticism of Gerson ...
Well, I already thought Leonidas could be in either category (forward or centre-forward) but while I've been studying the possibility to make world historical rankings I noticed that he shares slightly more similar characteristics with very skillful centre-forwards as Romário than other support strikers as Pelé or Bebeto.
Got it. Yes, there are players who are complete and so it is difficult to define what is their position. Tostão has often been classified as ponta-esquerda early in his career, but he acted like a FW on the left side in 1970. Of course he is a FW. BTW , I put Tostão among reserves in place of Socrates in my list. BTW², do you have any list of top Brazilian players, without defining position or lineup?
Well, I can test a ranking from my own estimates: 01. PELÉ (Edson Arantes do Nascimento) 02. ZICO (Arthur Antunes Coimbra) 03. GARRINCHA (Manuel Francisco dos Santos) 04. RONALDO (Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima) 05. ZIZINHO (Tomás Soares da Silva) 06. DIDÍ (Valdir Pereira) 07. ROMÁRIO (Romário de Souza Faria) 08. RIVELINO (Roberto Rivellino) 09. LEONIDAS (Leonidas da Silva) 10. RONALDINHO (Ronaldo de Assis Moreira) 11. RIVALDO (Rivaldo Vítor Borba Ferreira) 12. JAIRZINHO (Jair Ventura Filho) 13. FALCAO, Paulo Roberto 14. NÍLTON SANTOS (Nílton Reis dos Santos) 15. DJALMA SANTOS (Djalma Pereira Dias dos Santos) 16. CARLOS ALBERTO (Carlos Alberto Torres) 17. TOSTAO (Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade) 18. SÓCRATES (Sócrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira) 19. GÉRSON (Gérson de Oliveira Nunes) 20. ADEMIR (Ademir Marques de Menezes) 21. ROBERTO CARLOS (Roberto Carlos da Silva Rocha) 22. FRIEDENREICH, Arthur 23. JULINHO (Júlio Botelho) 24. CAFÚ (Marcos Evangelista de Moraes) 25. ADEMIR (Ademir da Guia) Near would be Domingos da Guia, Júnior, Danilo Alvim, Toninho Cerezo, Kaká, Jair (da Rosa Pinto), Pepe, Canhoteiro, Bebeto and Careca.
interesting list Peru. since yours is a rare list that put Zico above Garrincha in #2. Most often, either Zico or Ronaldo fluctuate in #3 and #4 . Also most people rated Carlos Alberto higher than Dalma Santos
One thing that really surprises me is how Dinho is ahead of Rivaldo in any kind of lists. Both had his best seasons in Barça, Ronaldinho won more trophies in the club level (let´s not forget that his Barça team > Rivaldo´s team), however Rivaldo should be ahead of him due to his vastly superior career in the national team. He was the second best player of the team in WC98 (below Ronaldo) and the main player in the WC2002 (for most of people on par with Ronaldo. IMO he was the real MVP that time). He also was the MVP in Copa America 99. On the other hand, Ronaldinho had a good performance in WC2002, but he was clearly overshadowed by Rivaldo and Ronaldo. In 2006, at his peak, he was really disappointing in WC. In WC2010 qualifiers, Dunga gave him several chances, but he was unable to get his place on the squad for the WC. He also didn´t delivery in Copa America. In the end, I would choose Rivaldo over Dinho any day, I think Rivaldo live up to expectations most of times, unlike Dinho.
Rankings always have some sort of error and inconsistency, but trying to make a mix between quality of each + career in Brazil NT (mainly), but this is mine: 01. PELÉ (Edson Arantes do Nascimento) 02. RONALDO (Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima) 03. ROMÁRIO (Romário de Souza Faria) 04. GARRINCHA (Manuel Francisco dos Santos) 05. ZIZINHO (Tomás Soares da Silva) 06. DIDÍ (Valdir Pereira) 07. ZICO (Arthur Antunes Coimbra) 08. RIVELINO (Roberto Rivellino) 09. RIVALDO (Rivaldo Vítor Borba Ferreira) 10. JAIRZINHO (Jair Ventura Filho) 11. RONALDINHO (Ronaldo de Assis Moreira) 12. LEONIDAS (Leonidas da Silva) 13. NÍLTON SANTOS (Nílton Reis dos Santos) 14. GÉRSON (Gérson de Oliveira Nunes) 15. DJALMA SANTOS (Djalma Pereira Dias dos Santos) 16. TOSTAO (Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade) 17. CARLOS ALBERTO (Carlos Alberto Torres) 18. BEBETO (José Roberto Gama de Oliveira) 19. ROBERTO CARLOS (Roberto Carlos da Silva Rocha) 20. ADEMIR (Ademir Marques de Menezes)