I love how he gets so passionate talking about La Maquina... In 40 years ASF will get the same way talking about Falcioni's boca no doubt
Well, I haven't made any all-time squad for a club because first I'm focusing on studying about countries but I can try with two models. One of the main rules for this task would be just only select players for each team which are effectively their major clubs, that's the reason because some players as Alfredo Di Stéfano (Real Madrid), Omar Sívori (Juventus) or Mario Kempes (Valencia) wouldn't be available options for River Plate and Diego Maradona (Napoli), Miguel Ángel Brindisi (Huracán) or Domingos da Guia (Flamengo) for Boca Juniors. All-Time River Plate Squad (35-men squad) GK CARRIZO, Amadeo (ARG) CB RUGGERI, Óscar (ARG) SW PASSARELLA, Daniel (ARG) RB YÁCONO, Norberto (ARG) LB SORÍN, Juan Pablo (ARG) DM ROSSI, Néstor (ARG) AM MORENO, José Manuel (ARG) AM PEDERNERA, Adolfo (ARG) RW PEUCELLE, Carlos (ARG) LW LOUSTAU, Félix (ARG) FW LABRUNA, Ángel (ARG) GK FILLOL, Ubaldo (ARG) GK SORIANO, José (PER) CB VAGHI, Ricardo (ARG) CB PÉREZ, Alfredo (ARG) LB VAIRO, Federico (ARG) LB RAMOS, José (ARG) DM GALLEGO, Américo (ARG) DM ALMEYDA, Matías (ARG) DM ASTRADA, Leonardo (ARG) DM MERLO, Reinaldo (ARG) RM LÓPEZ, Juan José (ARG) AM ALONSO, Norberto (ARG) AM ONEGA, Ermindo (ARG) AM AIMAR, Pablo (ARG) AM ORTEGA, Ariel (ARG) AM FRANCESCOLI, Enzo (URU) AM GÓMEZ, Walter (URU) RW MUÑOZ, Juan Carlos (ARG) LW MÁS, Óscar (ARG) FW DÍAZ, Ramón (ARG) FW SAVIOLA, Javier (ARG) CF FERREYRA, Bernabé (ARG) CF SALAS, Marcelo (CHI) CF LUQUE, Leopoldo (ARG) CARRIZO-- RUGGERI -- PASSARELLAYÁCONO --------------------------- SORÍN ROSSI- PEUCELLE -- MORENO --- PEDERNERA -- LOUSTAULABRUNA All-Time Boca Juniors Squad (35-men squad) GK TESORIERE, Américo (ARG) CB BIDOGLIO, Ludovico (ARG) CB MELÉNDEZ, Julio (PER) RB SOSA, Carlos (ARG) LB MARZOLINI, Silvio (ARG) DM RATTÍN, Antonio (ARG) DM LAZZATTI, Ernesto (ARG) AM RIQUELME, Juan Román (ARG) FW ROJAS, Ángel Clemente (ARG) FW CHERRO, Roberto (ARG) FW VARALLO, Francisco (ARG) GK ROMA, Antonio (ARG) GK GATTI, Hugo (ARG) CB BERMÚDEZ, Jorge (COL) CB ORLANDO (Peçanha de Carvalho) (BRA) CB SAMUEL, Walter (ARG) RB LOMBARDO, Juan Francisco (ARG) RB IBARRA, Hugo (ARG) LB TARANTINI, Alberto (ARG) LB PESCIA, Natalio (ARG) LB SUÁREZ, Pedro (ARG) DM SUÑÉ, Rubén (ARG) DM SERNA, Mauricio (COL) DM BATTAGLIA, Sebastián (ARG) CM FLEITAS SOLICH, Manuel (PAR) RM MADURGA, Norberto (ARG) RW BOYÉ, Mario (ARG) FW BARROS SCHELOTTO, Guillermo (ARG) FW TÉVEZ, Carlos (ARG) FW BENÍTEZ CÁCERES, Delfín (PAR) CF TARASCONI, Domingo (ARG) CF SARLANGA, Jaime (ARG) CF PALERMO, Martín (ARG) CF VALENTIM, Paulo (BRA) CF MARTÍNEZ, Sergio (URU) TESORIEREBIDOGLIO -- MELÉNDEZ--- SOSA ------------------------ MARZOLINIRATTÍN -- LAZZATTIRIQUELMEROJAS --- VARALLO --- CHERRO
This is the All-Time list made by El Grafico (1975, march 19) The voters were argentine ex-players, trainers, journalists and directives. Formation is 4-2-4 Amadeo CARRIZO-----121 Julio COZZI----------------41 Sebastian GUALCO -----21 ----------------------------------- Carlos SOSA----------------86 Norberto YACONO-------33 Francisco LOMBARDO---31 Carmelo SIMEONE Roberto PERFUMO-----66 Pedro DELLACHA-----39 Jose SALOMON---------24 Jose ALBERTI Jose MARANTE Rafael ALBRECHT-----61 Federico SACCHI-------31 Ernesto GUTIERREZ---25 Jose GARCIA PEREZ Eduardo RODRIGUEZ Silvio MARZOLINI---102 Ricardo PAVONI-------30 Federico VAIRO--------25 Natalio PESCIA --------------------- Nestor ROSSI----------73 Angel PERUCCA-----42 Eliseo MOURIÑO-----18 Jose M.MORENO-----75 Norberto MENDEZ---59 Antonio SASTRE-------39 -------------------------------- Oreste CORBATTA---85 Mario BOYE------------44 Juan C.MUÑOZ-------30 Rene PONTONI---------53 Adolfo PEDERNERA---41 Luis ARTIME-------------29 Alfredo DI STEFANO Rinaldo MARTINO---60 Angel LABRUNA-----52 Enrique SIVORI--------20 Antonio SASTRE Felix LOSTAU------103 Enrique GARCIA---55 Oscar MAS-----------24 Ezra SUED Note: The final votes were counting after few weeks.
Varallo was a legend but I think I’d put Palermo ahead of him especially because of his performances against River.
I don;t recall if many people remember or saw the 2007 Cops America, Riquelme put on one the best individual performances I have ever seen. He was scoring crazy goals all throughout the tournament and in he final he destroyed Gremio from Brazil scoring two insane goals first from a free kick and another from like 20 yards out. Overall it was one of the best performances I have seen. Better than anything from Messi Or Ronaldo or any current player.
So given your rules, I am assuming you are counting Roberto Perfumo as a Racing player? Also interesting to see you have no back-up Right Back as Hernan Diaz misses your list Some other players I think deserve a shout would be Marcelo Gallardo, Antonio Alzamendi, and Hernan Crespo, but overall a nice list good work
From what i read. It seems that San Lorenzo's duo (Pontoni/Martino) had a higher peak and also were more skillful in their roles of #9 and #10 than Pedernera/Labruna. Of course the River players also reached a WC peak and had a more consistency career.
I don't know how so many of you guys have Messi missing from your starting teams. The rest of the team can be debated, but an all-time Argentina team just HAS to have the Maradona-Messi-Di Stefano trio starting, in my opinion.
Moreno and Pedernera are at the level of DiStefano, Messi still has not matched them yet. A great World Cup in Brazil would do it though.
Those were all-time teams built by their best players at overall level, not just only in direct confrontations between River Plate and Boca Juniors.
Exactly mate. I wouldn't consider to Hernán Díaz at so high level to form an all-time team for River Plate. I forgot Antonio Alzamendi, I'd replace Leopoldo Luque by him. Then, I couldn't find a place for Marcelo Gallardo in a 35-men squad and the major club of Hernán Crespo is definitely Parma.
IMO if we are looking at Peru FC's method, Messi shoudn't be in the all-time argentina squad. He has had 1 good year with the national team, but still of all the goals only 1 has been in a world cup and just 2 in a copa america. The majority have come in friendlies. Messi may be the greatest of all-time, but right now he is an idol of Barcelona, not of la seleccion argentina Putting Messi in an all-time Argentina squad would be like putting Di Stefano or Kempes in all-time River Plate squad or Maradona in an all-time boca squad. In reality, they made their names else where
Ok, personally I'd have Hernan Diaz, but I can understand if you don't want him there. My team- which would be based on only players i've seen (from 1994-) would be: ----------------------------Burgos ---H. Diaz------C. Ayala-------Demichellis----Juan Pablo Sorin ---------------------------L. Astrada ---------Aimar----------D'Alessandro-------Ortega ----------------------Salas----------Francescoli Subs Comizzo Mario Yepes Ricardo Rojas Javier Mascherano Matias Almeyda Lucho Gonzalez Eduardo Coudet Marcelo Gallardo Javier Saviola Fernando Cavenaghi I am basing these players solely on what they did for River or I would have people like Radamel Falcao, Alexis Sanchez, and Gonzalo Higuain... They should flashes of brilliance with us, but did most of their work else where
I've read about La Maquina's players and am very impressed by what they did. However, Messi is putting up Maquina-like performances and numbers in the 2010s, when defenses are much faster, games are tighter and tactics more developed. In the 1940s, scoring 4 or 5 goals in a game was pretty common. For me, that factor puts him in the Di Stefano, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, all-time great group.
Very well said ... of the very truely realistic and undisputeable FACT Di Stefano a Real Madrid and liga legend (alltime too) Messi a Barca/Liga legend (future all time) Maradona and Kempes MUST HAVE in "Argentina legends" (they brought WC apiece_)
I realize that and Palermo has won much more for Boca Jr’s than Varallo, has scored more goals for Boca, and has overall been known to be one of the best performers in clasicos in the modern era.
I had the argentinian line-ups until 1980 (published by El Grafico) and checking most capped players in #9 and #10 role during 1942-1947 (when La Maquina shined). CF: Pontoni (19), Pedernera (13 /6 as IR), JJ.Ferraro (7) IL: Martino (20), Labruna (11), JM.Moreno (14 / 2 as IR). Like i said, Pontoni and Martino were recognized as the most skilled forwards from their generation in their position. Both able to win any match by themselves. San Lorenzo touring Europe in 1947 http://www.somoscuervos.com.ar/wiki/Historica_Gira_1946-1947 Martino scores "El gol de America" (amazing slalom to win Copa America) http://www.somoscuervos.com.ar/wiki...Años_Del_Gol_De_“Mamucho”,_Del_Gol_De_América Ramon Melcon (ex spaniard trainer and journalist) made a review from the best players for each top country 1st half XXth century. His best XI was: Zamora - Bauer, Quincoces - Samitier, R.Petit, Meazza - Matthews, Ben Barek, Pontoni, Martino, Orsi.
The main difference between them is the level of skills displayed. Francisco Varallo is described as a better player at overall, faster, better dribbling and more polyfunctional. Martín Palermo was better heading but at overall I think he had somewhat limited skills. Also I'd consider to Varallo as forward and Palermo as centre-forward.
Fair enough but I think the list should be based on what each player specifically did for the club and their contributions no? Palermo was part of arguably Boca’s best period ever under Bianchi and after that he continued his success with the club under other coaches still winning. ANd yes I do take his performances against Boca’s biggest rivals into consideration and the clutch performances he showed.