Ajax: We Want More; Let's Go for Four

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Cruijff's point is something that most of us recognized at the beginning of the season when Eriksen left. None of the replacements are skilled enough to do what Cruijff is asking. Serero is too easily dispossessed and Duarte was injured and never got the chance to beat Serero out. Klaassen is an improvement on de Jong but it's not clear that he has good enough skills to really function well in the midfield. Blind is good enough but has shuffled back and forth to fullback because of Boilesen's injury. Until the front two midfielders show enough ball skills I am afraid that these problems will continue. It's good enough for the mediocre Eredivisie but not good enough for top level Europe competition.

    I don't know whether any of the midfielders in the youth system have the necessary skills.
     
  2. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Andersen. ;)

    And Blind, Serero, Klaasen and Duarte are decent enough imo.

    Cruijff is stating this not only because Frank doesn't seem to get it but also because it's a reaccuring problem in Dutch football in general. Almost everybody seems to be ignorant to the fact that's its unwise to involve the backs in buildup.
     
  3. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd imagine that Cruijff has had this conversation with Frank in private before.
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I find Anderson a bit of a Bojan on midfield. There is skill under the hood, but it's not coming out. There is silk, but the steal part is lacking so much that it overshadows the silk part. Remains a question when it will come out. Pröpper from Vitesse was maybe a similar case. Always seen as a big midfield talent (more so than van Ginkel maybe) with a lot of technique, but something held him back. This season he finally showed his potential, though after the winter break not as good as before.

    Anyway I think the biggest mistake Ajax has made this season (having Europe in mind) is not buying a proper left back and instead going after van der Hoorn. I remain with my claim that it would have allowed Ajax to win against Celtic away and Milan at home, making it out of the group in CL. Blind could have been stationed permanently in DM which was pretty key for the season, despite winning from Feyenoord on Sunday with Poulson in DM.

    Is the way de Boer builds up not the same as van Gaal? I remember van Gaal's first season at Bayern and he did the same. Much possession, but at the back and many passes to the keeper. It often creates syrupy football as it is more safety first football and minimizing risk in passing. Van Gaal can also play other systems though. At AZ he did this and with the Dutch NT he does this as well at times. A tad more reactive, no full pressing, bit more retreated, fast counters, enough passes that are over 10+ meter. His Ajax side from the nineties he kept more possession at the back again IIRC.

    I have yet to see from both coaches that they do something like Guardiola. Play the ball into midfield and let game really flow from there on a consistent basis. Both van Gaal and de Boer like the safety from passing between the CB's and keeping it away from the higher pressure zones. This way the midfielders Ajax and Netherlands produces will never develop into what they have in Spain. De Boer by the way prefers runners in midfield. De Jong and Klaassen are players he loves. Ajax was only really prepared to splash the cash for van Ginkel. Another midfield runner. I don't see intend too play as Cruyff wants to play in the purchase moves from Ajax or the way build up is happening.

    I think de Boer is also the same as van Gaal concerning his love for coachable players. Adriaanse told Sunday on tv that Blind was chosen over PVA (Vitesse) as the first one is coachable and the other operates on intuition. Van Gaal prefers the first one, de Boer I think as well. That has also been a reason for his success in Eredivisie. At PSV they have many street footballers. Players that might be able to do more with a ball. At the start of the season it looked very nice for them. Then it collapsed. De Boer with Ajax likes more perfect son in laws. They are more dependable and lend themselves more to function as a unit.
     
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  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @DRB - excellent analysis and in tune with what I think. Regarding Andersen, it was foolish to play him on the wing as FdB did earlier this year. He is not a winger! Don't know if he has the strength to be a good midfielder at a high level. He seems to get pushed off the ball too easily but it's still to early to tell since he has not had much action there. I suspect Klaassen and Blind will both have a place in the MF so that leaves Andersen competing with Serero & Duarte. IMO Serero is the poorest of the three but favored right now.
     
  6. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    Groenendijk will quit Jong Ajax by the end of the season. Time to bring Kluivert back?
     
  7. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    Serero had fun against Brazil. Posing with Neymar and everything.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He extended last season to June 2017
     
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  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Another big ZERO for FdB's game management ability. A lot of scrambling in the last 15 minutes but they could not find the winner and almost conceded the game to Cambuur. Out of 90 minutes there was maybe 10-12 minutes of decent football. This is just not good enough and I don't care if the team is in first place, they are just not worthy of playing anywhere in Europe with this current starting 11. Sure the Eredivise is a joke of league at present but Ajax should be above this!

    Why Serero is even considered for the starting 11 is just puzzling. He's had maybe two good games and the rest are just awful. Once Sigthorrson joined de Jong up front any thought of pressing is gone by the wayside as the team is just too slow.

    Player Ratings:

    Cillessen (6) - made a couple of nice stops and distributed the ball better than in the NT friendly against France
    Riederwald (5.5) - didn't do anything terrible but wasn't particularly involved in the play
    Moisander (6) - one of the better players on the pitch
    Veltman (5.5) - put Cillessen in danger on three occasions but was otherwise OK
    van Rhijn (6) - one of the better players on the pitch
    Blind (6) - did a good job over all both in the midfield and at fullback
    Serero (3) - other than drawing a foul that led to a late free kick he should be consigned permanently to the bench; just a very weak player
    Klaassen (5.5) - a little too static at times but played with good physical presence
    Schöne (5) - should he have done better when in on the keeper? Surprisingly dispossessed quite easily on a number of occasions; poor pass to de Jong
    de Jong (5) - scored a goal which is cause for celebration
    Kishna (5.5) - two good plays in the opening two minutes and that was it
    Bojan (3.5) - not good enough for Barcelona and certainly not good enough for Ajax
    Sigthorrson (3.5) - ponderous and not good on the ball at all when he has to play away from the middle, either play him at striker or not at all
    Poulsen (5.5) - highly questionable substitute but did play with heart as expected

    Absolute disgust prevents me from writing anything more! [​IMG]
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Has everyone else given up on this team? Maybe there's more interest in the NT but certainly posts have been dwindling lately.
     
  12. Bran

    Bran Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    Nijmegen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I wouldn't be surprised if people gave up the Eredivsie entirely, this season is really abhorrent to watch. Winning the title has also been devalued so much.
     
  13. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    This is just the latest in a series of lack luster performances since the winter break. Ajax has escaped a few times, but there is a fundamental flaw in the team in the way midfield operates, which keeps coming back to haunt us. De Boer really needs to rethink his game plan.

    We're lucky PSV took too long to fix their issues and Twente and Vitesse are too unstable to threaten the title.
     
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  14. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    They are so far behind that it must be one of the reasons why we've seen so many lacklustre performances these last couple of weeks. When Twente lost in Deventer I had an eerie feeling that we will lose points against Lukoki and co.. and we did. :thumbsdown:

    Vitesse are now our nearest rivals, but they will meet in form PSV this saturday while Twente are playing AZ. PSV are now strong contenders for the 2nd spot. Who would've thought that a couple of months ago when they were trailing Twente by 13 points? :eek:

    Zivkovic about to sign in a few hours as a way of countering the bad press lol. If we lose points again next week I bet Overmars will announce the imminent signing of Ziyech (who we probably also already have under wraps).
     
  15. G Enriquez

    G Enriquez Member+

    Apr 1, 2002
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I'm still suffering from post-Salzberg depression. We were twice embarrassed by a club named after an energy drink :(
     
  17. Bran

    Bran Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    Nijmegen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Red bull geeft je vleugels!
     
  18. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I'm still pissed off from last year's Steaua matches...

    Winning a fourth title means absolutely nothing to me, if we continue to play piss poor like this, for the better part of 2/3 months now..
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Just curious, but how did you become a fan of Ajax while living in Vermont?? Were you at one time living in NL?? Or did you just start supporting AFC from Vermont??
     
  20. Quackmore

    Quackmore Member

    Jun 5, 2011
    The Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Do you speak Dutch? If so you should head over to http://ajax.netwerk.to/forums/
     
  21. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does nobody here remember the Koster years? Or ten Cate? Or Van Basten? Or Wouters?

    It seems like we have short memories.
     
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  22. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Never lived in NL. Ancestry on my dads side is Dutch and one of my friends had an Ajax jersey when we were in grade school in the 90's. My interest basically grew from there. Took my first trip to Amsterdam 3 years ago.
     
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  23. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Yeah yeah...I really didn't start following the club closely until the Danny Blind & Henk Ten Cate years but that has given plenty of perspective on how far the club has come. Still...Losing 6-1 on aggregate to a team from freaking Austria? It's a big time reality check and it's been a tough pill to swallow.
     
  24. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    ...not trying to rub salt into wound, but it should've been 14-1 aggregate score, or something like that.

    It's ok to lose to a superior team, but we were completely out-hustled by Salzburg. That's passion, planning, execution and coaching......

    ....and belief.

    Anyway, old news

    (rant over)
     

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