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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Matrim55, Feb 1, 2007.
From my father-in-law:
I can't even begin to imagine the horror both the kid and his wife must feel, and I never would want to.
I wish George Bush would, just for a minute or two, feel the pain that that severely wounded soldier felt and feel the sadness of his family. Goddamnit but I cannot hear about wounded servicepeople without getting enraged.
Thank god we're not allowed to see their coffins; that would cheapen their sacrifice.
I hear stories like that and it makes me pray a little harder at night. For those soldiers, and for my family members who made it back without physical injury.
What a pair of chestnuts on that Marine
If this story took place with this soldier being injured in Darfur would you be any less enraged?
Uh, yes. I would be less outraged, but no less saddened. I'm assuming the Darfur mission would for humanitarian reasons.
Our mission in Iraq right now is basically humanitarian in nature, that is strengthening a government and it's citizens to prevent or cope with a potential civil war.
It's sad to say but soldiers die and soldiers get injured. What impresses me about about this soldier is not the cause of his injury but his almost superman like response to it. In my opinion it's inspiring, not tragic.
I thought you were talking about the first guy. The second guy is a really amazing character. As you said, inspiring. What happened to the first guy is beyond tragic.
I would also disagree - to a point - about the mission in Iraq being a humanitarian one. The mission was to remove a dictator. The mission now - well, I'm frankly not sure what would constitute mission accomplished.
Yes. It would be no less horrible but it wouldn't be a waste.
Yeah, we have to fix their country because we ********ing broke it!
I agree. I also would suggest that this was a pretty good argument FOR the war--we had "broke" Iraq before we invaded. We bore a great deal of responsibility for the degraded state of Iraqi society.
Unfortunately, our leadership was too arrogant, self-deluded, and ignorant to properly prepare for the hard work of occupation and reconstruction.
Mission accomplished would be leaving a government functional enough to gain the moral highground and strength to stave off any armed conflict against it.
Is it a waste if the soldier himself believes in what he was doing?
I think the unemployment rate in Iraq was as high as 70% just prior to the invasion. Maybe if some of those desperately poor urban Iraqis had some hope for the future, they wouldn't be so likely to pick up a gun for whoever's willing to pay.
That said--thanks for sharing, Matrim55. Sobering read.
The soldier had no choice. Once he voluntarily enlisted, he has to follow orders whether he agrees with them or not, whether he believes in them or not.
It is indeed a waste of human life to issue orders to this soldier that put him in harms way, when those orders were based on lies and half truths.
It's a waste of a resource. Every soldier who was killed and disabled in Iraq is one that we cannot use in pursuit of better goals.
First story, super sad. Second story, inspiring. All in all, I think we are being very wasteful.
A soldier is not a resource and his life is not payment for something bought.
As an asset to an organization, what else could he or she be other than a resource? "Resource" is not a dirty word.
Philosophically I think I agree with this, mostly because the idea of putting a price on a human head is a little gristly. However, this sentiment would pretty much decimate every Presidential speech about war, Veteran's Day, D-Day, Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg... How often do we hear the meme that our freedoms are bought with the blood of our soldiers?
Oh - soldier one... depressing. Soldier two? His first response shows he's got some stones. Hope he goes on to a productive and healthy life.
I wouldn't put too much stock in his response, for 2 reasons:
-He's emotional, just coming out of an injury
-He's young and doesn't understand the life consequences yet, as he will when he gets older
Plus, he might be joking. And he just got hit by a bomb.
A reason why kids are used to fight battles is because they'll believe in a cause. When people get older and they see more grey and not black-and-white (us-and-them), they're less likely to fight and kill and be killed. You only have one body, one life. When these kids get older and realize what went on, when all the praise stops, it'll be more like Oliver Stone's Fourth of July, sadly. It's a tragedy, and this is about all I'd ever want to say about it.
If he's wrong, yes.
Obviously, one can't help but be impressed by a Marine who can laugh off having his eye blown out. But... I wouldn't idealize that kind of reaction too much. Even tough guys get PTSD, and no one should be made to feel less brave for acknowledging or seeking help for those emotions.
His initial reaction is inspiring, but it may be internal defense mechanism as anything. I really feel for the guy and what is coming around the bend when the reality of the rest of his life sets in. Without knowing boo about the guy, I would think he is in for some serious depression, followed by a realization of what he can/and will be able to do.