8/3 USA vs NZ (Oly Quarters)

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. WestCoastAllDay

    WestCoastAllDay New Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Carson, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The third sentence has got to be the most ignorant interpretation of a rule I've ever heard.
     
  2. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    That's because defenders are defending.
     
  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    You don't think it was dangerous?
     
  4. WestCoastAllDay

    WestCoastAllDay New Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Carson, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First of all, maybe we're discussing a different play from reading other comments, but if the play in question is the Morgan knee v. NZ goalkeeper's grille, in my eyes there is no foul on the NZ goalkeeper because while she is going for the ball, she makes no move outside her central frame or zone, somewhat like but not necessarily the same as the "verticality" rule in basketball. If there was any foul, it would be, in my eyes, on Morgan for the knee to the grille, although maybe a no-call in this unusual situation was sufficient.
     
  5. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    My understanding is that this should have been a simple call: defender goes to ground to challenge attacking player, doesn't touch the ball but takes out the attacking player. Foul. If the ref thinks she's the last man, red card. She went down, and took Morgan out - certainly it wasn't a malicious tackle, but she came in, missed the ball and impeded the attacking player. Where in the rule does it say - "free pass if you use your face to trip someone rather than a limb?"
     
    BlitzSpiele repped this.
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Here is what FIFA says about position. No mention is made of verticality. You need to go to a basketball forum for that discussion.


    You keeper moved into the path of the player with the ball.

    The directions to referees also say the only fair challenge is shoulder to shoulder with one foot on the ground and arm on the contact side held close to the body.

    I'm pretty sure a studs-exposed challenge that forces a player to jump isn't included. And I'm pretty sure it is dangerous.

    View attachment 7397


    Here is a slide from the FIFA referee teaching document.

    [​IMG]

    So if you move into an opponent with the ball and make any other contact before you get the ball, it is a foul,

    period.

    In this particular case, the keeper never made contact with the ball, so any contact is a foul - studs up is reckless or dangerous. And you are surprised Morgan jumped?


    Beyond that, the instructions make it clear that it doesn't matter how the challenge is made, only that it is.
    So if the contact is with your head, tough. It is still a foul.

    Read it and tell me if there is any discrepancy between what it says and your position.
     
  7. WestCoastAllDay

    WestCoastAllDay New Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Carson, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It also says in the rules that if the ball hits your hands or arms in the box it's a penalty. Why do you think it isn't always called then. Everything just isn't black and white when it comes to interpretation and enforcement of rules.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Honestly, Read the rules on handling. The only contact that is illegal is always intentional handling. That is a judgement call.
    Yeah if it is in the box and prevents a goal you aren't getting the benefit of the call, but it is always a decision by the ref. And even if it wasn't deliberate, if you made yourself " bigger" to handle, you probably won't get the call ( see: FIFA Luis Fabiano exception to the rules on handling)

    Refs have this goofy idea that they are empowered to ignore trifling offenses, also ( though that isn't in the rules).I submit that doesn't apply. There wasn't anything trifling about that foul.

    Likewise, in a collision the ref can USUALLY surmise contact was made. It so happened that ms. Hellen Keller didn't make the call. That's what this discussion is about.

    It is about a 14 hr. flight to Argentina.
     
  9. WestCoastAllDay

    WestCoastAllDay New Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Carson, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I guess we just have to disagree. I applaud the ref for making the "correct" call of a no-call (play-on). I'm just glad no one was seriously injured.
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    She didn't even get that part right by letting play continue. It was the players who stopped play for injury.
     
  11. WestCoastAllDay

    WestCoastAllDay New Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Carson, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I must say it, it was meant as a figurative statement, not literal. As well, the ref did stop the play with a whistle when she realized the serious nature of the play, and immediately signaled for the medics, while ignoring Wambach's pleas for the call.
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    She didn't whistle until ally Riley stood still with her foot on the ball unchallenged in the 6 yard box.
     
  13. Reallyoldnorth

    Mar 7, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The Morgan takedown in the box earlier was more worthy of a PK than the smackdown of the GK. Two things at play....Refs are very reluctant to be seen as making the call the decides a game, prefering to let the result come from the play on the field. The other....when was the last time the US got at 50/50 call in international play? 1948? Usually, there is enough contact for the ref in his or her mind to say "could have gone either way. No call." It's an out for the ref to escape really harsh judgment from the side the call goes against. To get a call in the penalty box in a major tournament would require a foul that would rise up to something like a red card.
     
  14. Reallyoldnorth

    Mar 7, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Have to correct myself here. Watching the replay, a lot of her first touches were very good. Maybe one or two on goal scoring opportunities weren't so great, but overall, very good.

    Third the notion that Morgan has been our Player of the Tournament so far.
     
  15. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Actually, the reason the non-call was so outrageous is that it wouldn't have been a PK (which, yeah, I guess no SA ref is going to give the US). Morgan was clearly outside the area and the ref could've decided she wasn't the last man and not given a card. It was such a routine call - and such a clear foul . . .
     
  16. Reallyoldnorth

    Mar 7, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I'm thinking of the play where the NZ defender grabs Morgan's shoulder and rides her to the ground from behind.

    This is probably trouble, but I easily see a male ref sending off a male GK in the same exact play.
     
  17. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    I've seen that go both ways, to be fair
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I have never seen the player that got saddled up get called for the foul. ;)
     

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