4th Official

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Slaskwroclaw18, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Slaskwroclaw18

    Jun 26, 2011
    Philadelphia, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 Slaskwroclaw18, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    I was a 4th official this weekend for an Amateur Cup Final in my state. Game went well. Both benches behaved very well and I manage to handle all substitutions well. The assessor did have a couple points including:
    1) Hands-I either had my hands behind my back (which was fine) or crossed when I was inactive. Assessor said that this was a no-no and it seem to portray indifference or boredom. He did acknowledge that I was attentive and the hands thing was more inexperience than anything else.

    2). He said I interacted with substitutes too much in terms of wearing pinnies, warming up with balls, etc. and that these issues should be dealt with the coach and that he should be the point of contact for the players.

    Inexperience is the biggest thing for me as a fourth official so anybody have some good tips or a comprehensive list on what is expected of a 40?
     
    dadman repped this.
  2. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    I've only been a fourth a handful of times so I can't really offer you any advice, but your second point is definitely good to know as this seems like something I would do.
     
  3. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Work through the coach, rather than directly with players on the bench. That will limit how much you have to deal with the players.

    I think the 'check list' approach is the wrong way to approach being a 4th. If the game is important enough to have a 4th official, it has slipped over into the category of being 'an event.' It is no longer just a bunch of kids or guys playing in the park on Sunday afternoon. As I'm fond of quoting Herb Silva about what he was looking for in MLS officials, "I've got lots of guys, LOTS of guys, who can blow the whistle and point in the right direction most of the time. I'm looking for someone who can produce an event." The 4th official is the main producer.

    That means that your first priority is to keep everyone's focus on the game itself, not on the benches or the officials. As Ian Anderson is fond of saying, "The 4th official is the rodeo clown." Now if you've been to a rodeo, you know that the rodeo clown's job isn't primarily to be funny. His job is to distract the bull's attention when the cowboy is down. So, if the coach is up, yelling at the referee, your job is to get him talking to you. Get over there, stand in front of him and talk to him, calmly and rationally. Don't start with threats, ask, tell, dismiss. "I'll talk to the referee at half about it." If he has "concerns," understand why. He's probably a paid coach and losing this game may cost him his job. Or, at least, that's what he's afraid of. We have to deal with his fears and his possibly unrealized dreams.

    You may need to remind him that he can't...... Kick the advertising signs, have more than one coach up talking to players at the same time, let players warm up without pinnies (VERY easy to talk them into putting on pinnies, if you focus on why it is in their best interest and not "because I said so."), etc. "Don't be so visual, coach," if he's waving his arms and becoming the show over some call that he doesn't like. Implied: "if you are less visual in your dissent, I'll talk to you about the problems." Ditto language that can be heard by spectators. Coaches at this level know they're not going to change the referee's decision, but they still need to vent sometimes. So you let them vent, maybe on you, as long as they don't get foul mouthed about it, don't do it in a way that everybody out there thinks he's going crazy, etc. You just have to be able to talk to them, with language they'll understand and accept, after you have been a good listener.

    It is very important that you have an understanding with the referee about who's going to do the ask and who's going to do the tell. You do NOT want to have done 'tell,' the guy is still whacko and you call the referee over, only for him to do an ask. The referee has to have the confidence in the 4th, as a member of the team, that he's done what he's supposed to do before calling him over. Similarly, after the game, the 4th should be the one that screens the referee from the irate coach or player(s). "Just keep walking."

    Yes, there's all that other stuff about extra balls, pinnies, where subs warm up, working with the red hat if it's a broadcast game, working with the subs, subtle helping with the little things like throw-in directions right in front of you, etc. But those aren't the most important things. The 4th is a full member of the team, not just a spare tire. What can you do to make the whole crew look good? The 4th is the referee crew's liaison with the world outside the lines, e.g. announcer, security, game management, even watching for severe weather coming your way. In my experience, being a 4th means long periods of just watching the game, the referee, the home bench, the visitor's bench, repeat, with intermittent moments of terror that the whole thing is going to come unstuck because you didn't take care of business.

    Being a 4th is 95% people management.
     
  4. soccerman771

    soccerman771 Member

    Jul 16, 2011
    Dallas, Texas area
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This last paragraph was the most difficult thing for me to realize doing 4ths. Set the tone at the beginning or before the match with the coaches/managers. While the AR's are checking nets and getting in place. Introduce yourself to the coaches (again), get balls put away, pennies on players. Explain the technical area, substitution procedures or whatever else needs to be communicated. Go out of your way to listen, show empathy and answer questions. Lots of head on a swivel. bench, bench, field. Record cards. Do NOT let a restart happen on a 2ct without a red being shown.

    I've found that sometimes I don't get to watch much of the match if I'm properly doing 4th duties.
     
    dadman repped this.
  5. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    @Law 5 brings up some great points. The only other thing I would add is, figure out who your characters are on the bench. If you are doing a higher level match, you probably don't want to bother the head coach with requests for subs wearing pennies, etc., rather you may want to leverage one of the assistants. Figure out who the hot head is (if any) and be nearby when you anticipate a reaction to something on the pitch.

    I find it useful to think through challenging situations ahead of time. If someone is sent off, where do they have to go per the ROC? Who is the trainer? Have a word with them so they know what you need from them. Figure out how to work the sub board, if you have one. Ball persons? Brief them. Review the procedures if a player comes out for an injury or blood on their jersey so you are ready.

    All that being said... it sucks. Keep working at it and it will feel less like the terror Law 5 describes and more like a trip to the dentist, if you are lucky.
     
  6. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Paper St. Soap.Co raises a good topic, the trainer. Yes, know who the trainer is, including whether there is one that will serve both teams or one for each team. When there is an injury, you need to get down to the trainer that, potentially, is going to be called onto the field. IMHE, trainers are very eager to get out there. Too eager. You need to be with them, assuring them that the referee will call them on if they are needed. And, if the referee does call them on, this leaves you, probably, in front of the bench of the injured player. You will be able to pick up if the coach plans to do a sub or wants to wait and see. If he's going to sub, then you can get the sub paddles ready and anticipate getting a sub pass, etc. Just be sure the injured player is off the field and the referee has actually beckoned on the sub. [I learned that one the VERY hard way.]
    If he's going to wait and see, you will know that you have to continue monitoring whether the injured player is now ready to return, in which case you can help raise the referee's attention (some referees seem to become completely oblivious to the possibility that an injured player may be waiting for his signal to re-enter) or whether the coach has now decided that he has to sub for the injured player. This situation, of course, requires that you know the rules (FIFA, NCAA, NFHS) about re-entry during the run of play v. at a stoppage, a sub entering for a team playing short, etc.
     
    dadman repped this.
  7. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I"ve had the pleasure of working tough games with a GREAT 4th (former national candidate), and the "pleasure" of working games with a 4th who was more than useless.

    The above two paragraphs are key and you don't realize how helpful a good fourth is until you have one. I did the finals of a Mens Latino league last fall. Probably the single toughest game I've done, or will do. 4th was the former national candidate. This game is the end of the season and it runs different, because there's two games, back to back consolation and then this one. So there's a spare field for everyone (teams and refs) to warm up on.

    So what did my fourth do for me:
    - Allowed me and the ARs to have a good warmup, while he checked in both teams, checked equipment, got the game balls and explained the walkon to all of them. I "met" (I'd reffed them both several times during the season) just before we all walked up to the field
    - Took care of all passes, rosters, subs etc.
    - Kept the coach/bench off AR1's back, he played "rodeo clown" perfectly. Heck I hardly heard any complaints from benches while I was on the field.
    - At one point called me over (he had ask/tell, I had dismiss) and informed me a coach needed to go, coach went, no questions asked.
    - Game ended with controversy, (don't they all), suffice to say after 90 minutes, 2 OT periods I was "spent", so as the ref team walked to the cars, he intercepted the captain of the losing team and stalled him while the rest of us went to the cars
    - He had the game report pretty much filled out, we double checked everything and got the report done quick (which was important due to insurance and a bad injury)

    They can be priceless!
     
  8. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    That guy is my hero.
     
    dadman repped this.
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #9 msilverstein47, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  10. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
  11. aaronriley

    aaronriley Member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Yep
     

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