32 teams CONCACAF Champions League (how slots will be allocated?)

As long as the 5th, 6th, and 7th best Mexican teams still play Libertadores....don`t really care.....America had Santos beat

I like the idea of a 32-teams in the group stage, like the group stages of UEFA CL, AFC CL, and Conmebol Copa Liberadores. Restricted to the top 15+1 leagues. I like the idea to grant a berth for the Title Holder, but not an extra berth for its domestic league, the Title Holder will be always Team1 of its domestic league.

If a 2nd level Concacaf club tournament enters, the champion of such tournament has granted a spot at least in the Preliminary Round as the lower berth of its own domestic league.

The follow ranking is according to last and current CCL results.

---------------------------------------------------------------
1 Mexico (Group Stage: 3 / Preliminary Round: 1)
2 United States (Group Stage: 3 / Preliminary Round: 1)
3 Honduras (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
---------------------------------------------------------------
4 Costa Rica (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
5 Panama (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
6 Guatemala (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
7 El Salvador (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
8 Canada (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
---------------------------------------------------------------
9 Puerto Rico (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
10 Trinidad & Tobago (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
11 Nicaragua (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
12 Guyana (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
13 Jamaica (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
14 Haiti (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
15 Belize (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
16 Surinam* (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1**)
---------------------------------------------------------------

* If the Title Holder is not from Top-15 leagues, its league will be ranked as 16th, if not the campion of the 16th ranked league will take the last automatic berth in the group stage.

** Berth reserved for the Champion of a 2nd level Concacaf club tournament from a 16th o lower ranked league. If such Champion is from top 15 ranked leagues or already qualified for the group stage, then the runner-up of the 16th ranked league will take the last berth in the Preliminary Round.

--- Grouping 8 direct berths in the Group Stage.

If we use all CCL results, then the Rankings are
---------------------------------------------------------------
1 Mexico (Group Stage: 3 / Preliminary Round: 1)
2 Honduras (Group Stage: 3 / Preliminary Round: 1)
3 Puerto Rico (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
---------------------------------------------------------------
4 Canada (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
5 USA (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
6 Costa Rica (Group Stage: 2 / Preliminary Round: 1)
7 Panama (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
8 Guatemala (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
---------------------------------------------------------------
9 El Salvador (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
10 Trinidad & Tobago (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
11 Nicaragua (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
12 Guyana (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
13 Jamaica (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
14 Haiti (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
15 Belize (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1)
16 Rest of CFU (Group Stage: 1 / Preliminary Round: 1**)
---------------------------------------------------------------

I'll indulge, 32 team, 8 groups of 4. Easy. Same amount of matchdays needed, just a round of 16 instead of a preliminary round. 4 Team Max per nation but can climb to 5 if you have the defending champions.

1. Mexico = 4.
2. USA = 4.
3. CFU = 4 (take everyone who gets to the semi's)
4. Honduras = 3.
5. Costa Rica = 3.
6. Panama = 3.
7. Guatemala = 3.
8. El Salvador = 3.
9. Canada = 2 (Cup + Top MLS team)
10. Nicaragua = 1
11. Belize = 1
--------------------------
12. Defending Champs.

Or, if you want to get rid of the defending champs slot, give it to the whomever has the higher coefficient between Nicaragua and Belize.

my guess to Future of MLS
2012
teams 19, added Montreal Impact, 3 canadians teams
Regular season: All-play-All, unbalanced schedule, 34 games
Playoff MLS Cup: 10 teams, in November.

2013
teams 20, by allowing the champion of 2012 NASL by only one year.
Regular season: All-play-All, unbalanced schedule, 34 games.
Playoff MLS Cup: 10 teams, in November.

2014
teams: 20, 20 franchises.
Regular season: All-play-All, unbalanced schedule, 34 games. June pause to Fifa World Cup.
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams, in November, Final in December.

2015
teams: 24, 22 franchises and allowing 1st of 2014 NASL regular season and champion of 2014 NASL playoff by only one year. 4 Canadians teams
Regular season: All-play-All, 12 teams by Conference, 22 games in conference and 12 games out conference, 34 games total.
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams, in November.

2016
teams: 24, 24 franchises. 5 canadians teams.
Regular season: All-play-All system, 12 teams by Conference, 22 games in conference and 12 games out conference, 34 games total.
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams in november.

2017
teams: 26, 24 franchises and allowing 1st of 2016 NASL regular season and champion of 2016 NASL playoff by only one year. 6 canadians teams.
Regular season: All-play-All system, 13 teams by Conference, 24 in conference and 13 out conference, 37 games total
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams, in November.

2018
teams: 20 franchises. 0 canadians teams.
Regular season: All-play-All home-and-away system, 10 teams by Conference, All-play-All, unbalanced schedule, 34 games. June pause to Fifa Wolrd Cup.
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams, in november, Final in december.
First year of the new Canadian Soccer League, with 8 franchise teams in, all canadians, 20 games in regular season and all-8 teams in playoff.

2019
teams: 24. 22 franchises and allowing 1st of 2018 Development Soccer League regular season and champion of 2018 DSL playoff by only one year. 0 canadians teams.
Regular season: All-play-All system, 12 teams by Conference, 22 in conference and 12 out conference, 34 games total.
Playoff MLS Cup: 12 teams in november.
First edition of a Concacaf Champions League with 32 teams, including 2 guests teams, a colombian and a venezuelan.
6 USA
5 Mexico
2 Canadian
12 Centroamerican
5 Caribbean
2 guests, 1 colombian, 1 venezuelan.

So 8 MLS teams and only 5 Mexican teams, that is not going to happen.

If we go to 32 I would not be opposed to the idia of invited teams (maybe the best Venezuelan and Colombian teams not in the Libertadores or Copa Sud Americana).

Not, I say first canadian soccer independency, that means 6 MLS teams and 2 CSL teams.
I guess the 4th Venezuelan team maybe enjoy more being in a group stage of CCL that get 1 playoff spot in the 36 teams Cupa Sudamericana. The problem can be southamericans teams travel to Canada and viceverse but you can fix the groups lottery to ban this travel.

The maximus travel that a club can do in a continental cup is the distance between Moscow and Lisbon 4.000 KM or 2400 milles, that is why I like split AFC by Syria-India and NorthKorea-Australia, Syria-Australia is 14.000 Km away, crazy, Vancouver-Bogota is 7.000 km.

In a 32 team field, I'd cap one nation at 4 (with the possibility of 5 with a defending champs spot). I'll revise my initial stance (4: Mex/USA/CFU; 3: CR, Hon, Pan, Guat, El Sal; 2 Can; 1 Nic/Bel/Defending Champ)/

It would be my hope that an expansion of 32 teams would be due to permanent leagues taking hold in the Caribbean & the return of Jamaican/Haitian leagues on a regular basis. Maybe even Suriname and Guyana.

I'd go like this:

4: Mexico
4: USA (MLS Cup, SS Winnner, USOC Champ, SS 2nd)
---------------8 spots-------
3: Costa Rica
3: Honduras
---------------14 total spots------
2: Panama
2: Guatemala
2: El Salvador
---------------20 total spots------
1: Canada (sorry, 1 is the limit with no league)
1: Nicaragua
1: Belize
1: Defending Champ (next highest Caribbean team if already qualified, or maybe a Caribbean/Canada playoff).
---------------24 Total spots---------

That leaves 8 spots up to the Caribbean.

I'd like to give the strongest leagues permanent spots, but also retain some importance for the Caribbean Cup. If more strong leagues keep popping up, then keep subtracting slots from the Caribbean Cup, until only 1-2 spots remain.

4: Top 4 in Caribbean Cup
1: T&T
1: Jamaica
1: Puerto Rico
1: Haiti
*: If a team double qualifies, then that association may place another team in the tournament (take the 2nd place team from that association).


I'd just go straight to group, 32 teams, 8 groups of 4. Top 2 advance to round of 16. No preliminary round. No more than 1 team from an association in a group. No more than 1 team from an association in any quarter or the 16 draw.

Not bad.

1 Question, if the defending champion also wins say the clausura Mexican tournament, then Mexico would not get 5 spots?

I guess another issue is that wining or losing a final will be rewarded as equal, but that is not a big issue, I guess we can even that out by putting weaker CFU teams in their groups.

32 teams?

Say no to drugs.

And only about 10 from North America!

Embrace the high!

But hey maybe we should start talking 40 teams (16 pre-group elimination)

fyp

OK, I am not a fan of the new format, the 8 groups of 3. I guess this was a Rayados Idea to reduce the number of International games, WTF, is not like Concacaf teams play 50+ regular season games.

So I am bumping this thread to maybe in the future keeping the 8 groups but moving to 32 teams 8 groups of 4.

So keeping with the idea of a max of 6 teams + a possibility of the Champion, I wonder how Mexico would balance the CCL and the Libertadores (and Maybe the Sud-Americana in the future).

Option 1) Easy way

The 4 Apertura/Clausura Finalists + 2 best teams in the General table that did not make the finals to the CCL

3 Best Apertura Teams not playing currently in the CCL go to the Libertadores.


This system can punish teams that finish high on the table or make the finals with the lesser CCL cup when most (not Tigeres) would prefer to play the Libertadores, also this makes the apertura tournaments more important than the Clausura tournaments.

Option 2) Strong Libertadores.

The 2 half tournament Champions to the CCL (because Concacaf demands it), but the other 2 Finalists go to the Libertadores as Mexico 1 and 2. (Concacaf may say "hells no").

The other 4 teams would be based on the regular season table skipping over the Defending champion of the CCL (they are automatically back in the CCL) also skipping over the 4 finalists since they are already going to tournaments.

Then the best apertura team not involved in the CCL is LIBMEX3

Option 3) General table + Copa Mexico

The apertura and clausura champions go to the CCL.

Then the 3 best teams in the full general table (Apertura + Clausura) go to the Libertadores as long as they did not win one of the two championships, then the other 4 CCL teams are the teams with most points not in the Libertadores and who did not win the aperture or Clausura.

If Copa Mexico came back, that champion would also go to the CCL, my reason is that that would give a Primera de Ascenso or Segunda/Tercera teams a chance of the CCL (read Tiburones Rojos to the CCL ).

I'd prefer, like AFC, to restrict the CCL to the TOP 15-16 ranked leagues; however, the lower ranked leagues may enter into a second level tournament which i call "Unions Cup", the first stage (CCL groups stage) is for regional Unions tournaments kinda "North American SuperLiga", "UNCAF Interclubs trounament" and "CFU Club Championship", top 3 of each tournament advances to the Unions Cup finals (CCL championship round).

TOP 16 RANKED LEAGUES (according to last 4th CCL seasons):
1.- Mexico: 4 berths.
2.- United States: 4 berths.
3.- Honduras: 3 berths.
4.- Costa Rica: 3 berths.
5.- Panama: 2 berths.
6.- Guatemala: 2 berths.
7.- El Salvador: 2 berths.
8.- Canada: 2 berths.
9.- Nicaragua: 1 berth.
10.- Belize: 1 berth.
11.- Puerto Rico: 1 berth.
12.- Trinidad & Tobago: 1 berth.
13.- Guyana: 1 berth.
14.- Haiti: 1 berth.
15.- Jamaica: 1 berth.
16.- Surinam*: 1 berth.
CL.- Champions League Extra Berth**: 1 berth.
UC.- Unions Cup Wild Card***: 1 berth.

Note *: TOP 15 leagues are the 15 leagues that already qualified at least once to the CCL. The 16th ranked league, Surinam, has the best performance of of the non-qualified leagues.

Note **: Champions League Title Holder (CLTH) will be always allocated as team 1 of its own domestic league. Leagues 1st-2nd may have a 5th berth; leagues 3rd-4th may have a 4th berth; leagues 5th-8th may have a 3rd berth; leagues 9th-16th may have a 2nd berth; leagues 17th-40th may have 1 berth (the "Extra Berth").

Note ***: Unions Cup Title Holder (UCTH), has granted the lowest berth of its own domestic league (if not qualified). For tournament proposals the CLTH domestic league will be ranked as low as 16th (if apply). For leagues 1st-2nd UCTH has granted the 4th berth (or 5th if apply); for leagues 3rd-4th UCTH has granted the 3rd berth (or 4th if apply); for leagues 5th-8th UCTH has granted the 2nd berth (or 3rd if apply); for leagues 9th-16th UCTH has granted a 2nd berth "wild card" (or 3rd if apply); for 17th-40th UCTH has granted the "Wild Card" berth.

thoughts..

Well the CCL loses money as it is, so not sure about a second tournament for smaller clubs.

Also the CFU cup could be considered as a second tournament that is used to qualify to the CCL.

I would not mind splitting Puerto Rico (really the Islanders) from the CFU and giving them their own CCL spot, I think is not wise to give some many spots to individual CFU members just yet.

Shit Jamaica doesn't even participate in the CFU cup anymore. Why would they get their own CCL spot?

Now in the future, sure start separating the better countries from the CFU and giving them individual allocations as they improve, but not just yet.

As it stands now, we have the top 11 "federations" that play in the CCL with CFU counting as 1.

I made the list from all the 15 nations that have participated in the last 4 CCL tournaments, nine had qualified to the championship round at least once, Puerto Rico included. Two Caribbean nations have a better performance than 2 Central Americans, while Nicaragua has a better performance than 3 Caribbean leagues, Belize has the worst performance below 5 CFU nations.

Ranking from 9th to 15th:
9) Puerto Rico
10) Trinidad & Tobago
11) Nicaragua (ranked 9th by concacaf)
12) Guyana
13) Jamaica
14) Haiti
15) Belize (ranked 10th by concacaf)

My format could be modified adding a "play off"-"qualifying stage":

GROUP STAGE: TOP 12 RANKED LEAGUES BY CONCACAF (by last 4th CCL seasons)
1.- Mexico: 4 berths.
2.- United States: 4 berths.
3.- Honduras: 3 berths.
4.- Costa Rica: 3 berths.
5.- Panama: 3 berths. (1 more berth added)
6.- Guatemala: 2 berths.
7.- El Salvador: 2 berths.
8.- Canada: 2 berths.
9.- Nicaragua (Puerto Rico): 1 berth.
10.- Belize (Trinidad & Tobago): 1 berth.
11.- Puerto Rico (Nicaragua): 1 berth.
12.- Trinidad & Tobago (Guyana): 1 berth.
*.- Champions League Title Holder

PLAY OFF: 12th-16th RANKED LEAGUES BY CONCACAF (by last 4th CCL seasons); 4 to qualify.
13.- Guyana (Jamaica): 1 berth.
14.- Haiti (Haiti): 1 berth.
15.- Jamaica (Belize): 1 berth.
16.- Surinam (Surinam): 1 berth.

QUALIFYING ROUNDS 1-3 (CFU Championship): 17-40th RANKED LEAGUES; 4 to qualify.
17-40.- One champion from each federation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I like the idea of a 2nd level tournament to face this champion vs the sudamericana champion. Perhaps a match between the "UNCAF Interclubs" champion and the "North American SuperLiga champion".

Sounds expensive.

This is what I personally would like to see, Remember in the long run this evens out, if the USA loses a spot to Canada, the Canadian score would then drop because of a 2 team divisible, the USA score would go up since the divisible would be 3.

Ok, lets keep it with just 1 tournament. Same number of stages:
Group Stage + Play Offs + Qualifying Rounds (CFU Championship)


GROUP STAGE: TOP 12 RANKED LEAGUES
1.- Mexico: 4 berths.
2.- United States: 4 berths.
3.- Honduras: 3 berths.
4.- Costa Rica: 3 berths.
5.- Panama: 2 berths.
6.- Guatemala: 2 berths.
7.- El Salvador: 2 berths.
8.- Canada: 2 berths.
9.- Nicaragua (Puerto Rico): 1 berth.
10.- Belize (Trinidad & Tobago): 1 berth.
11.- Puerto Rico (Nicaragua): 1 berth.
12.- Trinidad & Tobago (Guyana): 1 berth.
+ 1 or 0.- Defending Champion (Restricted to max 4 clubs per league)
+ 1 or 2 clubs from Special Play Offs.
+ 4 clubs from Play Offs for Champions.

SPECIAL PLAY OFFS (1-3 Stages): 9th-16th RANKED LEAGUES; 1 or 2 to qualify (Title Holder Restriction Rule).
9th-12th.- 1 runner-up from each federation (seeded).
13th-16th.- 1 runner-up from each federation.

PLAY OFFS for CHAMPIONS: 12th-16th RANKED LEAGUES; 4 to qualify.
13.- Guyana (Jamaica): 1 berth.
14.- Haiti (Haiti): 1 berth.
15.- Jamaica (Belize): 1 berth.
16.- Surinam (Surinam): 1 berth.
+ 4 clubs from qualifying rounds.

QUALIFYING ROUNDS 1-3 (CFU Championship): 17-40th RANKED LEAGUES; 4 to qualify.
17-40.- One champion from each federation.

------------------------------------------

Why I've selected Jamaica?, because they have participated in 1 of the last 4 CCL seasons.

Why the Special Play Offs?, because usually 4-6 Caribbean nations sent 2 clubs to participate in the CCC. Just added the Nicaragua's and Belize's runners-up, as such participated in the former UNCAF tournament.

I'll go one further: include perhaps a J-league team. The team could play its 3 group stage games over a week. Then, the other 3 teams could travel together to play the japanese team, again over a week. How about a bigger one: lets go to Europe. The biggest obstacle here isnt travel, but Garber's ignorance is not realizing that the WFC DOESNT DO A DAMN THING FOR MLS. MLS is starting to make some bucks in advertising and tv revenue, so no it doesnt desperately need the WFC. When Euro teams play Euro teams, or Euro teams blast a MLS team out of the water, it only reinforces negative opinions of MLS and positive ones of Europe. Why should MLS perpetuate those beliefs? One reason MLS teams get creamed is talent discrepency and the fact that MLS teams dont take it seriously. Have these games count in MLS standings (2 for win, and 1 for tie). All MLS teams will play 2 "friendlies" w/non concacaf teams. No touring European team may play more then a majority of its games against non mls teams. Furthermore, visiting teams to the US during the summer should include Conmebol & J league teams too. And finally, a 2nd level Concacaf competition would be created equivalent to Europa league and Copa Sudamericana that would be played over a short period in the summer involving 8-10 concacaf teams, and would include up to 6 invites from Europe and elsewhere. In one group you might see, Osaka, ManU, Tigres, and Vancouver. Or it might be, Rangers, Botafogo, Dallas, and NY.
As for who has the power to orchestrate this, yes, USSF can dictate to ManU and others the terms of its friendlies on US soil.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25511012&postcount=48

"USSF is not entitled to an exemption from the antitrust laws regarding professional soccer, except to the extent necessary for USSF to oversee Olympic and related events. USSF has no clear mandate from Congress to govern the whole of professional soccer in the U.S."

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...dce/1:2006cv05724/202932/184/0.pdf?1279918973

so why doesnt mexican league play regular games in the Rose bowl, or why doesnt bundeliga have games in alsac lorraine part of france? somewhere there are rules by Fifa that restricts outside competition to a domestic league. Ussf can appeal to Fifa that the World Football challenge is a direct competition to MLS, and Fifa would restrict those visiting teams with the threat of sanctions. On CCL having 32 teams, at the least they could secure 2 invites each from Venezuela, Ecuador and Colombia (all about as far as Panama). Other then that, based on infrastructure Mex should get 6 slots, US 5, Costa rica 3 and Canada 2. The remaining 10 teams would come from central amer (6) & CFU (4)

How could the WFC be direct competition if it is run by that league? And that league works with the US Federation.

They will not appeal to get rid of the WFC. They help organize the WFC. wtf. The WFC isn't competition, it is a product of the league's marketing arm. It's like saying Big Macs are competition to McDonald's.

His original point was that the league should force the European teams to some type of organized tournament so he knows the WFC is owned by SUM (SUM is a different entity owned by the owners of MLS LLC).

My point was that SUM can not force visiting teams to do what ever they want (unless they can show them the $$$$$) the other teams could always form their own company (say traffic) to organize the WFC (or the Mexico friendly games).

Now Sunil is the head of the USSF and an employee of SUM so obviously he pushes all International competition to SUM.

But legally the USSF can't do anything to stop the friendly games even if they do not hire SUM.

Yes they could bitch to Concacaf and FIFA, but guess what USA law would trump FIFA law, the worst thing for the USSF would be a legal battle in USA courts, FIFA hates when courts get involved in their little scam.


BTW doesn Traffic sports USA own the rights for Brazil friendly games in the USA?

32 teams:

7 Mexico
6 USA
2 Canada
3 Costa Rica
3 Honduras
2 Panama
2 El Salvador
2 Guatemala
1 Nicaragua
4 CFU

CFU - 4 (2 group, 2 prelim)
Honduras - 4 (2 group, 2 prelim)
Panama - 4 (2 group, 2 prelim)
Canada - 3 (1 group, 2 prelim)
Guatemala - 3 (1 group, 2 prelim)
Costa Rica - 2 (1 group, 1 prelim)
El Salvador - 2 (1 group, 1 prelim)
Nicaragua - 1 (prelim)
Belize - 1 (prelim)