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Discussion in 'AFC: Tournaments' started by REALfootballRulez, Jan 25, 2011.
Yes. Thanks for reminding me his name, as he was impressive.
Just last year before WC, many posters include me agreed Aussie and S.Korea were big 2 (or top 2), and Japan,Iran,Saudi are little behind. I remember after WCQ some Aussie posters became bit cooky and completely looked down upon Japan. But now many posters consider Japan as one of top teams in Asia. Things have changed quickly.
Iran just narrowly lost to S.Korea. Gap is very littel, Power balance can be changed quickly just in next one or two years. There is no need to underestimate other teams and their potential needlessly, even if some posts might frustrate you.
As for Japan, just two years ago, Honda and Kagawa still played in 2nd division, and Nakamura became bit old. And then Even though Japan qualified WC behind Aussie, many expected they would fail in WC. It is amaizing how things changed.
Though one years later thing might go bad, who knows
I think there are clearly some arrogant Aussie fans, as there are some who are classy and level headed. And I am sure Iranian fans can be divided and subdivided into a host of different generalizations. Its better to discuss these issues, however, in some other thread and focus the discussion here on the Japan-Australia final. I say this primarily because some of the Aussie fans here have been trolling with comments that appear intended to elicit a reaction from Iranian fans, while falling back on the position that this thread is about Japan-Australia once they elicit the reactions they have been looking for. No reason to fall for that trap and sorry if I fell for it myself.
I have seen a lot decent Aussie fans and while I do find many of them more dismissive about Iran than supporters of other teams that have had to play Iran more regularly, a lot of them are knowledgeable folks who bring interesting perspectives to the discussions on this board. Just like Australia joining the AFC is good for football in Asia, I certainly am glad that we have these Australian fans to discuss the game in Asia. If for no other reason, many of them by virtue of their language and background will in fact help bring greater attention to Asian football outside the continent. Including in the English language press, which undoubtedly is quite influential in the opinions that are formed around the globe.
Australian fans have been fine this tournament.
If there was any real arrogance from them at ALL it was probably RickChelsea's comments about goalkeeping in Asia..... Hopefully Kawashima in the semi vs Korea & against Australia made him reconsider his position there because he is a fantastic keeper as are Japan's 2nd & 3rd keepers. And there are a decent number of teams with great goalkeepers.
But other than that little episode with goalkeeping, Australian supporters have been nothing above an appropriate amount of confidence. Sometimes they do forget or misread the subtext of some games they play imo but EVERY passionate fan does that to some degree.
Australian supporters have done well and honestly the way in which attitudes by Australia fans here has changed over the last 4 years is a reflected in that. What's wrong with an Australian thinking they are capable of beating Iraq & Uzbekistan and thinking they're in with an alright chance against Japan? Nothing at all I had that same opinion with the circumstances.
I disagree. First of all, any team that reaches the final deserves to be there, in my opinion. If a team can pass the group stage and manage to win two successive knockout games, then it fully deserves to be in the final. Secondly, hypothetical conditions cannot be proven. What if Japan met us in the quarter-final or semi-final? Who knows, it could've have swung either way, just like it did in the final. There's no guarantee in football, especially not when you're playing against the very best.
To tell you the truth, I would have preferred facing Asian giants such as South Korea and Japan in the elimination rounds than having to put up with them in the final match, for two major reasons:
1. Had we lost to either one of them prior to the tournament finale, it wouldn't have been as emotionally devastating as reaching the last game and losing in extra-time (or even penalty shootouts).
2. Had we defeated these teams in the elimination rounds, then our chances of winning the tournament/final would have been increased significantly.
So in all honesty, it would've been a privilege facing the likes of Korea Republic or Japan before the final round.
As for Iran, I wouldn't worry about them. This has got nothing to do with any "Australian arrogance" or us being ignorant of the sport. I've lived almost all my life in the Middle East and tasted the best Asian Football pie in the history of the game.
Having said that, Iran would have probably worried me less than Iraq. I personally find Iraq a lot more lethal, eager and determined whenever they play against us than Iran. Plus, they were the defending champions. As much as I love and respect Iran, as a country of wonderful past civilizations and achievements, I simply won't consider them a side capable enough of "guaranteeing" victory over Australia. In my opinion, the only two sides we should all be fearing right now (as members of the AFC) are the two sisterly nations that co-hosted the 2002 FIFA World Cup.
As for our path being a lot easier than the other teams, frankly I find this argument slightly flawed. We need to realize this is no FIFA World Cup or UEFA Euro Cup tournament. This is only the Asian Cup, after all. Every team that reached the Asian Cup final throughout the history of this tournament met some easy fixtures along the way. Iraq met Vietnam in 2007, Japan met Bahrain in 2004, Saudi Arabia met Kuwait in 2000 etc. Fixtures are only ever going to become harder as your team makes it to the semi-final. Otherwise, it shouldn't be that difficult.
I think a lot of people have underestimated Australia's path to the final, since the two most attractive sides to watch in Asia were inevitably bound to clash with each other in the opposite end of the playoff bracket. This all goes down to the fact Uzbekistan were heavily crushed 6-nil by the Roos. Had the scoreline been any different, I wonder whether or not we would've received a similar reaction by several BigSoccer members.
Wow. I'm still getting over that 80s footage.
What's your take on Gorbachev, Mani? is he a real partner for peace?
Good god, this topic is meant to be on the game last night. Boys will be boys, I suppose...
No disrespect to Australia but they did have a very easy road to the finals, Japan where also missing alot of key players including Kagawa who is vital for their team.
To say Japan didn't deserve to win the tournament is crazy.
I hope Iran plays Australia in WCQ, I was hoping that might be a quarterfinal clash but unfortunately not. We have a relatively good understanding of Australia against Japan & SK, Saudi are in tatters as the other powerhouse. We've seen Australia are better than Iraq & Uzbekistan. But I think a
Australia-Iran game would be a cracker if not at least quite interesting from a neutral perspective.
Absolutely nothing wrong with getting to the final, as A'Kaka said, you can only beat the opponents infront of you and they did so therefore of that bracket they deserved to be in the final.
All the match highlights of Japan Team
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDoB3Gtcr-k"] AFC Asian Cup 2011 Samurai Blue[/ame]
music: CHANGE by Monkey MAJIK (Japanese rock band) + Yoshida Bros. (shamisen players)
It's important to remember that Australia got that draw in the knock out stages because we topped a group containing 3 of the top 5 from the last WCQs. I also think Iraq and Uzbekistan are decent teams. I also think that this tournament showed there is not much right now betwen the top 3 teams. Japan, Australia and Sth Korea all played each other once with scores level in all games after 90 minutes. Of course, I would rather be in Japan or Sth Korea's position for the next couple of years, as both of these teams seem to have developed a new generation of top class players, and we are just entering the rebuilding phase.
Right. Who gives a flying ******** about Australia & Iran in a thread about The Asian Cup Final between Japan & Australia?
Thread is closed- for now.
Edit- ok now I've gone through and deleted half the thread- lets continue this for post match comments on the game at hand.
Gee El Cap, i've been through just a few pages and got sick of the rubbish and gave up, i'd hate to see what it was like before you cleaned it up
Just wanted to say Congratulations to Japan!! That fantastic first time volley goal alone deserved to win any title. I am sure they will do Asia proud in the 2013 FIFA Confederations Cup in Brazil.
Hopefully all the currently injured Japanese national team players will recover in time for the Copa America in Argentina in July, players like Tulio Tanaka, Shinji Kagawa, Takayuki Morimoto...etc. Good luck.
As for the game, I think Australia started out way on top - playing a good brand of football and bossing the midfield and that seemed to rattle Japan a bit. Unfortunately though we couldn't put the ball in the back of the net when we had the dominance. The turning point of the game was the tactical change that came about when Japan changed their defence. Not only did this begin to nulify Australia's advantage in the air but also freed up Japan's LB (Nagatomo?) who for me deserved tournament MVP over Honda (although the GK was Japan's best in this game with some fantastic saves and good domination of the box - Schwarzer was still more consistently the better over the whole tournament but he's not as far ahead as previously thought). This in turn kept Wilkshire back doing more defending and stopping Australia's forward momentum resulting in more crosses being "hoffed in" from deep - we have started to get that out of our game but not all gone yet.
In stoppage time, after a good first period, Australia seemed to decide that they can wait for penalties, Japan scored a wonder goal from Australias' only real defensive mistake all game and there she wrote.
Congrats Japan - you were worthy winners.
As for the "best teams in Asia" argument, IMO the WCQ showed a drop in form from both KSA and Iran leaving Japan, Sth Korea and Australia clearly on top. Going into the WC I would have said Korea 1. Australia 2. and Japan 3. but Japan's performance at the WC was very good and going into this tournament I for one was saying that Japan and Korea were both slightly ahead of Australia - although there is the proverbial bee's d1ck in it. I'd still say that now.
Iran at this tournament showed they are at least on the way back and clearly the 4th team and catching the top 3, KSA that they have worryingly fallen further back, Iraq that they are still a threat, Barhain that they are still only just behind top level, and Uzbekistan showed that they can handle any 2nd tier team but perhaps mentally aren't ready to really take on the big boys. (this from the 3rd 4th playoff as well as Korea dominated the game before taking the foot of the pedal).
The tournament also had less grassrolling than I have previously seen in Asia and the big increase in Korea's and especially Japan's game has been on the physical side - at least partly this can be put down to having to play competitively against Australia so often in the last 5 years. Converesly Australia is now having to handle the fast, ball at feet style of the Asian game and getting better there as well. Win win for both sides IMO.
What a great Asian cup and see you all down here in 2015!
Asiancup's best11, Yuto Nagatomo(Japan) is loaned to Inter Milan from Cesena.
Perhaps not the best place to ask the question but hey this thread was derailed enough anyways! What is the plan for this? Are they gonna keep the cup to two close cities (i.e. Melb and Syd) or spread it out?
Is there a plan to improve infrastructure and maybe a cool fan zone? I more excited for this than the WC14 since I can attend this and if I had to pick one reason to welcome Australia in Asia this would be it, the fact that I can attend games
LOL..who are the bozos who keep voting AFTER the game is over??
The voting was 39-36 AFTER the game was over and now look at it!!
I'd be a bit worried about the person that voted for us after the game. maybe he'll take a bet from me.
That would be the 'Arrogant Aussie'.
He still thinks you can win after the match.
Maybe he's already voting for 2015.
That's the key for me, Goldie.
In the past i've been embarrassed to be in Asia because of the high amount of grassrolling (note highlight emphasis added, for some).
Because there was more football and less theatrics it made for a better tournament and as you have said, some teams have gained in terms of physicality which will stand them in good stead for the big Tournaments and Aust have definately gained more in the "ball at feet department".
It can only be of greater benefit for all.
Games will be along the East coast - mostly Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, although Canberra, Newcastle and Gold Coast have all been mentioned.
Flights are Cheap between these cities - it's not until you start to include Perth and maybe Adelaide that expense really goes up, and I'm sure there will be fan zones every where.
I don't believe there are plans to improve the infrastructure. What we have is what you get. Having said that, the stadiums on the list are all fairly modern and will be quite good for the spectators. It will be hot. January temperatures range a bit but days of 35 degrees or more are not uncommon. It will also be pretty humid. It does get cooler in the evenings when I would expect most games to be played (6PM and 9PM kickoffs are likely). It will be an East coast tournament. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are pretty easy to travel between by air. there vare also overnight trains if that is your preferred mode of transport. Newcastle and Gold Coast are within easy reach of Sydney and Brisbane respectively. Canberra is about 3 hours drive from Sydney or a short flight if matches get held there. If you get drawn in Australia's group expect to travel. I think we will play one group game in each of Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney. Maybe the other groups will be more locally based to assist anyone travelling from Asia. There is plenty to do outside of football. All three main host areas are pretty well geared up for tourism. Melbourne also hosts the Australian open tennis in January and has a thriving cafe scene. There is plenty of good food on offer with a variety of styles. Sydney isn't far behind in this aspect, and also has some of the best surf beaches around. I've never been to Brisbane and find the Gold Coast a bit trashy, but its still a great place for a short break. If you can get to Australia I'm sure you will have a great time.
Well I have been in all the cities you mentioned and don't have a worry about travel. I will be living in AUS for next couple of years working on a porject but probably will be back in NZ by 2015. Still I would hate it if Perth gets a spot and Iran ends up playing there. Melb or Syd will be sweet don't like Brisbane at all.
Would be the coolest if NZ gets into AFC and ends up playing in that tourny that would be the best thing ever!!!