I feel like I'm not getting something here. Is the idea that Tab Ramos, a naturalized American born in Uruguay, is biased toward players who are of Mexican heritage?
Leaving ethnicity aside, the usual tendency is to prefer players who bear some resemblance to the player that you were yourself. From what I recall of Ramos as a player, he was skilled and tricky with the ball at his feet but not very physical, nor was he consistent with his defensive effort. And even though he could deliver an excellent throughball, he didn't have great positional sense ... drifted around a lot.
Well, the U20 team was suppose to start with the U17 team. However, very few of them got called into any camps. It all starts with the coach and what he likes.
Real Corona is giving a literal statement of fact, not an opinion on where the team should start. To be eligible for the 2013 U-20 cycle, players had to be born on January 1, 2013 or later. To be eligible for the 2016 Olympic cycle, players have to be born on January 1, 2013 or later. So the Olympic team absolutely starts with the current U-20s. Not to mention, the previous cycles U-17s were for those born on January 1, 1994 or later, so they also had to contend with the 1993s. Also, just taking a quick glance at the 2011 U-17 World Cup team, 9 of them off the top of my head at least got camp call ups. I'm not gonna go back and research the full camp call ups but that group certainly wasn't overlooked.
I think its pretty clear that Tab was biased towards hispanic players. Or at least he thought that hispanic players could play his style better. If Javan Torre's name was John Smith I doubt he's on this roster. If Jack McBean is Juan Moreno I doubt he's 6th or 7th best FW.
^Stupidity Ramos initially said the reason for many of his picks was because they were more comfortable with the ball at their feet. Ramos looked at a lot of non Hispanic players who lacked good ball skills.
And whats the stereotype of hispanic players? -> They are better with the ball at their feet. I'm not saying he was the hispanic David Duke here, I'm saying that some of his decisions IMO were clouded. I think different U-20 coaches would have put together different teams. Tab's was a lil biased towards hispanic guys. A different coach may have been a lil biased towards a different group.
If it can be demonstrated that Ramos selected Latin-American players over equally talented non-Latin-American players solely because they were Latin-American and for no other reason -- or, for that matter, selected Latin American players over more talented non-Latin-American players solely because they were Latin-American -- he should obviously be fired immediately and never work for U.S. Soccer again. I would say this of any coach in any comparable situation. It's a serious charge. It should not be lightly made and without evidence. I don't know if that's what you or anyone else is charging, and am not saying that you are. Your call. I am not charging that. Neither has anybody made any credible claims to this effect that I am aware of. There are plenty of reasons to be disappointed in this team and its players in any case; nobody asked me for my thoughts, but I plan to share them eventually when I've got the time to write them out. Meantime, GO USA vs. Belize and sorry for taking this thread further off topic.
If Tab was biased towards Hispanic kids, then please explain Shane O'Neill and Caleb Stanko over Jeffrey Payeras. Or Kendall McIntosh and Zack Steffen over Tomas Gomez. This is Tab's first major opportunity as a coach. If he succeeds, it opens up a ton of doors for him professionally. I have no idea why on Earth he'd jeopardize such an opportunity for the advancement of Hispanic kids. While I disagree with his judgment in a few instances that happened to involve Hispanic kids (Torre), I also disagree with roster decisions where the Hispanic player was held back, with the two examples being Danny Cuevas and Mikey Lopez, who I thought didn't see enough time in the World Cup. There are also plenty of Hispanic players on this list: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/u20-mnt-cycle-call-up-list_aid28451 who were passed over. So while I obviously have zero issue discussing or criticizing Tab's coaching decisions, let's just stop the racial bias accusations without any real solid evidence, just takes the discussion somewhere it doesn't need to go.
Moving on............... I believe now that the U-20 cycle has concluded, we should name this cycle's U-23 coach within the next few months and start organizing camps every now and then, especially with the college players in the pool as well as the pros who don't see first team minutes. I think one of the major mistakes of last cycle was waiting till November 2011 to organize the team for the first time when the qualifiers were the next March.
A bi-annual CONCACAF U-21 Championship would be certainly be nice, plus it'll guard against situations where the 1992s last cycle (like Agudelo and Jack Mac) and the 1996s this cycle have no more YNT competitions before some of them even turn 20. Then maybe have like a Confed Cup-like tournament with each confederation's U-21 winners instead of a full blown World Cup. Just a couple of ideas. But as for this cycle, I'm not looking for anything too formal, just name a coach and start looking at a few guys to build a bit of familiarity, then start REALLY picking things up immediately after the end of the 2015 U-20 cycle. I do realize there's a risk of seeing a guy very early on in the process and writing him off due to a poor camp performance. See DeAndre Yedlin. But I think getting a coach and getting him familiar with guys in the pool early on will serve us some good.
I don't recall saying they were overlooked. What I said is that the U20 cycle was suppose to start with the U17's. At Tab's first camp with the U20's, there were a grand total of two from the U17 WC team that got the invite -- Koroma and McBean. This is where I have the problem. Here is the breakdown pertaining to the 2011 U17 WC team and there invites... Camp #1 - Koroma and McBean Camp #2 - Fehr, Dunn, Guido, Koroma, Oliver (who was dismissed from the U17 team) Camp #3 - McBean Camp #4 - 0 Milk Cup - McIntosh, Serna, Koroma, M. Rodriguez Marabella Cup - McIntosh, Pelosi, M. Rodriguez Camp #5 - McIntosh, Pelosi, McBean, M. Rodriguez Camp #6 - McIntosh, Guido CONCACAF - McIntosh, M. Rodriguez, Serna Camp #7 - McIntosh, Acosta, Serna, Koroma Toulon Tourn. - McIntosh, Acosta, Serna, Koroma World Cup - McIntosh, Acosta, M. Rodriguez WC Provisional Roster - Koroma, Serna This leaves Carroll, Souders, E. Rodriguez, Amon, Pina, Smith, Arriola, Melo, Salkicic, Mion and Hamilton as the ones from the U17 WC roster that never received an invite by Ramos -- not including the cup of coffee invites Dunn and Fehr received. At a minimum, these boys should have been given an opportunity.
Here's your quote- "However, very few of them got called into any camps." So you said any camps, not just the first one.
I'm not saying he was on some sort of racial crusade for hispanics. I'm saying that Tab, likely because of his background and the type of game he wanted to play, had a slight bias in the players he selected. Whether we know it or not our inner biases can often affect the choices we make. ---------------------------------------------------------------- If we had some way to create an alternate universe where Jack McBean was darker skinned and had a spanish name I would bet a considerable amount of $ that Tab wouldn't see him as the 6th or 7th best FW in this group of 93-94's.
Correct. I don't think 10 out of 21 U17 WC players is very many for a team that won the U17 CONCACAF and made it to the Round of 16 in the U17 WC. I simply used the first camp to show that Tab did not use the U17 WC team as a starting point. That first camp should have had the majority of the U17 WC team in it and whittle it down from there.