2014 MLS SuperDraft

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by bwidell, Nov 20, 2013.

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  1. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sofner for Lando? I'd make that trade:D
     
  2. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, we're completely going away from the topic ... but just to say my final bit on this ... if someone asks why not (for my example), they don't deserve an answer. It's too obvious to need one.
     
  3. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, we are off topic, but you have to understand that in the context of a traditional/formal disagreement there's no such thing as "common sense." It's an argument from incredulity. Don't get me wrong, I think you're right, but you have to explain why you're right.

    In this case, the basis for your opinion is historical precedent AND some inductive reasoning. Historically, a player's value grows exponentially in relation to his ability. Hence an 8/10 player is worth more than two 7/10 players. Looking at the draft, unless there's very little difference in quality between the players picked at #1 and #12 or #18 (historical precedent says otherwise), then the #1 pick will be worth more than two somewhat lower picks.
     
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  4. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you, but the point has nothing to do with whom the picks were used for. The 2011 First Pick was Omar Salgado (a striker/Amid with one goal in two seasons). Since he was not measurably better than Balchan or Ababio, does that mean that the picks were of equal value? It's the question of perceived value of the picks (just like I'd rather have an unscratched $20 lottery ticket versus an unscratched $1 ticket).

    Mostly, looking through the last several years' draft picks, shows: 1) how little real value makes it to the draft (there have been very few difference makers in any of the last 5 drafts) and 2) how bad scouting and evaluation are in MLS given how often the top player from a draft wasn't even selected in the first round.

    Edit: Oops, just saw LDD's upstream post and apologize for piling on.
     
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  5. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, does anyone think the Krafts have a secret deal going with the Bostom Mayor to put our SSS on Boston Common? :devilish:(running for cover)
     
  6. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    First of all, it does have something to do with who the picks were used for. You're not going to get a top prospect at pick 12, let alone pick 18 or 19. Could you find the Graham Zusi, Tim Ream, or other sleeper at that point in the draft? Sure, but you don't trade away the first pick in the draft for that slim chance. If you're trading the #1 overall pick for a package of draft picks in the same draft year, you'd have to receive a top 5 pick at the minimum.

    Secondly, I completely disagree with your opinion of the draft. There have been some quality MLS-ready players coming out in recent drafts.
     
  7. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Cool story, bro. Might want to bring that over to BigLawyers.com

    No one has to explain anything. This is a god damned internet forum of friggin soccer. If you are really relying on this group of idiots (me included) to bring academic debate to the table, then I'm not sure you really understand where you are.

    Look, its soccer. My opinion is better than yours and if you don't like it, up yours. That is how you debate!!!!!
     
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  8. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    To be fair, he did say "difference makers" and I'd have to agree with him. There have been a number of quality players for sure, but of the top 20 players in the league right now, how many have come out in the last 5 drafts? Omar, Besler, Zusi? They all came out in the same draft. Tim Ream maybe, but he is gone. The draft has become a good place to build squad depth, but increasingly rare a place to find truly impactful players. I'm not saying that the draft sucks. It is what it is, and to me, having multiple picks in a system like that is better than having one.

    With that said, I think you are right in that from a perceived value perspective its hard to convince someone with a really high pick to give you a top 3 pick for two lower level first round picks.
     
  9. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me, it's more about how we treat each other and less about how obvious something seems (what's obvious to some of us is not so obvious to others; for example, it was obvious to me that Shalrie's trespassing arrest had a racial component . . . but it turned out that wasn't so obvious to everyone here; for another example, it was obvious to some posters in week 32 that Heaps was a below average coach, but by week 34 that wasn't so obvious anymore). I think it's fine to ignore stuff that strikes you as way off base. But if you're going to respond to someone's post, why not explain why you disagree? I think the chances of Doc's proposed draft trade happening are zero (for the reasons Crooked and others laid out), but Doc strikes me as a decent, sincere guy, and IMO he deserves to be treated with respect.
     
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  10. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for explaining my point in a more reasonable fashion.
     
  11. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Jesus, are we really going to have an entire thread about what people are owed on these boards? No one owes anyone an explanation. It's a friggin internet message board for soccer. This is all nit-picking bullshit.
     
    Crooked repped this.
  12. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. There are unspoken rules. If you disagree with someone, be prepared to explain why. If you can't, then don't post in the first place or prepare to be chastised.
     
  13. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Actually, the unspoken rule is that if you post at all, don't expect an explanation when someone chastises you. Anything that happens downstream doesn't really matter. It's an internet message board.
     
  14. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, it's an internet message board. But it is human beings posting on the board, and I don't think the fact that we're all anonymous means that principles of how to treat people go out the window.

    You've mentioned in various threads that we should all be a little more thick skinned because, Hey, its just the internet. I'm curious why you think the internet has a different set of rules for how to treat people. Or do you behave the same way in face-to-face interactions?
     
    Soccer Doc repped this.
  15. agoo101284

    agoo101284 Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    Bronx, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did someone fix the windows? It used to be so drafty in here.
     
    Revs in 2010 and Kraft Out repped this.
  16. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Jesus F Christ, you guys are acting like Crooked attacked Doc. He said his OPINION was stupid. Someone says Crooked's OPINIONS are stupid. People say people have stupid OPINIONS all the god damn time. I think your OPINION is stupid. It has nothing to do with respect. It's an internet message board where OPINIONS are tossed around more than any actual posts with substance. This is what happens when you go on the friggin internet and you post your OPINION for the world to see.

    The other thing is that I'm pretty sure Doc is more than capable of defending himself. He doesn't really need you guys to be going around for 3 pages defending his honor. Hell, Doc is wittier than either of you, so it was only a matter of time before a nice quick retort would have come from Doc and the situation would have been over before you guys even blew it up into something it wasn't.

    All this self righteous bullshit is so friggin annoying. Everyone respects Doc. Everyone respects everyone else. Everyone treats people as humans. Let's talk about the draft, or some actual soccer...
     
  17. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Orange slices for everyone!

    Now ... back to topic please.
     
  18. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It has nothing to do with self righteousness. It's just the golden rule. This is kindergarten level stuff.
     
  19. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    yeah so, the draft...
     
  20. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I think you set a pretty effective screen for Crooked. His attitude pales in comparison.
     
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  21. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    ... that's why I operate two accounts, I created Kraft Out just to make myself look better.
     
    firstshirt, bwidell, Kraft Out and 2 others repped this.
  22. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    [​IMG]
     
  23. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you all think the Revs will do with their first round picks? Trade or use? What type of players will we target?

    Every person who reads this thread has the obligation to respond with a detailed answer. Don't just say "trade" and not explain why we should do so.
     
  24. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think they are going to use the picks, where they lay naturally, to chose the player left available who is strongest at a position of need.

    Detailed enough? I'm tire, I just felt obliged
     
  25. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    I think they might make a trade after the success of Farrell last season. We have 4 positions of need in my opinion, which are ST/DM/RB/GK. I don't expect to pick up an instant starter, but it would be nice to draft someone who is immediately fighting for a starting position. Forget GK. I don't want a GK under 28 years old. I think Farrell moves to CB, which means we need a new RB. I've heard good things about Eric Miller, but haven't seen him myself. There seems to be a couple freshman ST options, but who knows if they actually leave early. DM seems to be void of anyone in the top 10. That said, if Farrell moves to DM, there are a few highly rated CBs that could be drafted to start immediately.
     

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