2014 MLS Referee Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

The PRO Play of the Week is out they address the incident off the ball in the San Jose and Columbus game.

I have to say, compared to previous POW, they ripped into the crew about missing the incident pretty harshly. Compared to prior missed calls they've highlighted (which they don't do that often to begin with),they blame all four officials for missing this one and they don't make any excuses for the crew as they have some times done in the past.

 

I had a brief talk with another referee last night about how difficult it is for MLS players to earn their 2YC. He made a good analogy - in basketball, a fifth foul is called the same whether it's the first 15 minutes or last 10 seconds of the game. They apply the rules - and associated punishment - without regard for "impacting" with the game.

The obvious difference is that a fouled-out basketball player's team isn't playing a man down, but the impact can be just as severe.

 

I don't know about that. NBA and NHL games will see a difference in calls with under 5 minutes to go than they see during the rest of a game.

 

I agree with this. The NHL is certainly different than it used to be, but playoff games, third periods, and overtimes tend to be called more liberally. You would have to practically murder someone on the ice to get penalties so that "the players can decide the game". What goes unsaid is that the referees are impacting the game by not acting, but...

 

Very accurate, RedStar... nice way to start my morning by reading the POW! There are some good points in this POW. Where were my eyes? Trailing the attacking play on the wing so this incident was only seen with my peripheral vision and with multiple bodies between me and the incident.... definitely not enough of a direct look to give any feedback during the game by microphone, flag, beeper or any other means.

I am off for the next 3 weekends (not due to this incident, but due to non-soccer travel out of the country for the next 2 weeks), but I will be reading this board daily, as always!

 

What level does he ref? At NBA and D1, the refs know who is a foul away, and often will let a marginal call go. And on thedirect analogy -- technical fouls -- you certainly don't see debateable second Ts. All that said, I do agree that the second yellow tolerance seems to be higher -- and, even more disturbing to me, seems to be growing.

 

"On Tuesday it handed down an undisclosed fine to Gonzalez for his reaction to contact from San Jose Earthquakes captain Chris Wondolowski in the 92nd minute of Sunday's 1-1 draw at Buck Shaw Stadium. The Disciplinary Committee deemed it "embellishment in an attempt to deceive the referee" in the 92nd minute."

What a joke. No mention of the initial contact.

 

This description, I feel, highlights the key point that was lacking in the PRO discussion. In an incident like this one, the stakes are high, so unless you get a clear focus on it, you're kind of stuck. Nobody wants to be part of a decision like the one where simulation resulted in Matt Besler's suspension during World Cup qualifying.

 

Right. The reason the rule exists is that a player who commits two infractions worthy of a caution has, through his own actions, put himself in a position to be removed from the game. This is not the referee having a negative impact on the outcome of the game; it's the PLAYER having a negative impact on his team's chances if winning the game. By NOT ejecting the player, the referee is actually inserting himself into the game more than by not issuing the second caution if the player has earned it. Leaving a player in who shouldn't be there is making a conscious choice to insert yourself into the outcome.

It's not unlike the distinction we discussed a few weeks ago with offside and the US-Mexico game. It somehow seems to a lot of ARs to be less impactful on the game to not allow a goal that should have happened than to allow a goal that shouldn't have, when, in reality, they both impact the game directly.

And as much as it drives me crazy, I also get it. The application of the rule has functionally turned into a yellow+orange=red as opposed to yellow+yellow=red. One thought I've often had is to somehow separate procedural cautions from active play cautions. Encroachment, delay of game, etc., would somehow be treated differently (e.g., count toward season accumulation but not as a second yellow). Maybe it's a dumb idea. Maybe it's been tried and failed (I know you all will know if it has). I've never spent the time to think it through to its conclusion. But earlier this season, Kelly went to caution Alonso for encroachment, realized it would be his second, and pocketed it. Awkward and unfortunate for everyone.


(I realize this has probably been discussed ad nauseum on here, but I guess I'm a more intermittent visitor, so apologies.)

 

I agree with your comments and feel the same frustration when I start walking toward a player that I know is already sitting on a caution. Probably one of the more thorough and level-headed responses on this topic that I've read in the couple years I've been frequenting.

 

Should I repost that AK memo on second cautions again? Didn't we just do this last week?

 

OK, it wasn't last week, it was last year. Here it is.

 

As someone who 2YC'd a U14B player for jumping near the keeper as he was about to kick the ball, I don't understand the hesitation in producing the second card, whether it's encrochment or a usually yellow-worthy tackle.

 

Hey, @coreyrock, curious what you think of this form

http://gfycat.com/EnlightenedBoringArgali

 

1) At approx the 5th minute of the Red Bulls/Union match tonight, NY's Sekagya is fouled from behind near midfield. Salazar pulls out the yellow card, holds it down for a second or two and then is talked out of it (apparently) by the 4th official and puts the card back in his upper pocket.

2) Good call by Salazar on a DOGSO:

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...lls-vs-philadelphia-union/details/video/14015

3) Henry gets clipped in the 82nd minute, but no call. Olave retaliates seconds later by taking out the Nogueira and drawing the caution:

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...lls-vs-philadelphia-union/details/video/14017

 

I see a lot of arms in that position when a player lunges with his feet for a ball. Could this simply be a PK and a yellow? Seems like a tough play to levy the triple punishment.

 

Thanks. Like I said, I tend to appear and disappear from the forum, so I know I miss a lot of stuff.

That said, the reason that seems to have to be reposted periodically is because so many referees don't adhere to it.

 

HAHAHA!

Well, the whole world would be a better place if soccer fans sidestepped in perfect harmony with ARs...

 

Eh. If the goalkeeper was back in position, I could see a yellow. But with the goalkeeper out, and scrambling back, I think red is the right call.

 

With the goalkeeper out of position, if it's deliberate handling it has to be DOGSO-H. No ifs, buts, maybes or any scope for a yellow.

Depends if you think it was deliberate or not - I tend to think it wasn't accidental that his arm was there, put it that way.

 

I really don't think there is a need for this. Perhaps on something like delay of game when it seems to be part of a team wide effort and the individual infraction wasn't so egregious... But a player knows when he is on a yellow and should know that he shouldn't take chances in those types of situations. Much like that handling second yellow recently... Was it an egregious incidence of handling? No... Not really. But was it a horrible decision by a player already on a yellow? Absolutely.

Refs shouldn't have to work to protect players from themselves. If a player does something stupid then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Everyone makes mistakes at some point and nobody wants to make that mistake when it has such a high impact. Hence why it takes more for a PK too. If player could have gotten the ball or if it could have been a dive... Well, it is easier to give a first yellow for that than a second.

But hence why I wager that encroachment or kicking a ball away should be called that much more strictly for second yellows... These are clear cut situations that the players should be keenly aware of.

Of course, I would like to see tighter enforcement of this sort of behavior in general because I hate that type of gamesmanship.

 

yeah, the mechanics on this made me scratch my head as you could see that Salazar wasn't entirely sure trusting the advice being provided by his 4th official. On the replay you could clearly see studs to the back of the knee...has to be a yellow.

 

I actually agree with this (as my first paragraph indicates). But it seems that most don't, so my suggestion was only an attempt to find a middle ground.

 

No way. This has to be red every time.

 

04/19/2014

Philadelphia Union vs. Houston Dynamo
PPL Park (4:00pm ET)
REFEREE: ARMANDO VILLARREAL
AR1: Corey Parker
AR2: Matthew Kreitzer
4TH: Jose Carlos Rivero

Chicago Fire vs. New England Revolution
Toyota Park (4:00pm ET)
REFEREE: SORIN STOICA
AR1: Kermit Quisenberry
AR2: Jeremy Hanson
4TH: Baldomero Toledo

Colorado Rapids vs. San Jose Earthquakes
Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (6:00pm ET)
REFEREE: EDVIN JURISEVIC
AR1: Mike Rottersman
AR2: Scott Kachmarik
4TH: Tyler Ploeger

Vancouver Whitecaps vs. Los Angeles Galaxy
BC Place (7:00pm ET)
REFEREE: SILVIU PETRESCU
AR1: Jonathan Johnson
AR2: Marco Arruda
4TH: Dave Gantar

Columbus Crew vs. DC United
Columbus Crew Stadium (7:30pm ET)
REFEREE: JUAN GUZMAN
AR1: Peter Balciunas
AR2: Mark Cahen
4TH: Robert Sibiga

FC Dallas vs. Toronto FC
Toyota Stadium (8:30pm ET)
REFEREE: JORGE GONZALEZ
AR1: Kevin Klinger
AR2: Chris Strickland
4TH: Younes Marrakchi

Sporting Kansas City vs. Montreal Impact
Sporting Park (8:30pm ET)
REFEREE: HILARIO GRAJEDA
AR1: Ian Anderson
AR2: Jeff Muschik
4TH: Jair Marrufo

Real Salt Lake vs. Portland Timbers
Rio Tinto Stadium (9:30pm ET)
REFEREE: DREW FISCHER
AR1: Daniel Belleau
AR2: Jeff Hosking
4TH: Allen Chapman

Chivas USA vs. Seattle Sounders
StubHub Center (10:30pm ET)
REFEREE: ISMAIL ELFATH
AR1: James Conlee
AR2: Brian Poeschel
4TH: Kevin Stott

04/23/2014

New York Red Bulls vs. Houston Dynamo
Red Bull Arena (7:30pm ET)
REFEREE: JAIR MARRUFO
AR1: Gregory Barkey
AR2: Mark Cahen
4TH: Robert Sibiga

http://www.proreferees.com/mls-assignments-04-19-14-04-23-14.php