2014 FIFA WC QLF, AFC: Group A (II) [R]

Japan is in a whole different class. SK still has some distance to go, I'd say SK is more in the Iran and Aussie tier while Japan is still a notch higher. Sk could not beat Iran at Azadi while Qatar drew and the Uzbeks win so its hardly to see where exactly SK stands. Japan is consistent, they have a great style of play, and they command respect from their opponents.

 

Stop talking out of your behind. Nobody is taking anything away from Uzbekistan. Iran was the better team yesterday and had a legit goal disqualified by a biased Arab referee, just as Uzbekistan was the better team in the first match, and had a legit goal of their own disqualified. Those are the facts.

We don't have a problem with Uzbeks or Uzbekistan. Our problem with opportunists from Iran's neighboring countries who are suddenly posting on this thread, and showing an interest in this group, only because Iran lost a match and they somehow feel like they can now come here to rub it in. How obvious can some of you guys be? You were all absent last month when Iran defeated Korea with ten men. But as soon as Iran loses a match, you all show up here, circle-jerking and showcasing your inferiority complex by bad-mouthing Iran. Deep down you all know that Iran has a better NT team than your countries, and you fear Iran, so you use occasions like this to feel better about yourselves, and pretend for a moment that your teams are on the same level as Iran. The fact that you, a Saudi, whose team is not even ranked top 100 in the world, and couldn't even make it this far in the WCQs, has the nerve to compare his team to Iran, proves my point. Iran may not be at its best, but it's still a head and shoulder above your teams, and you all know that in your hearts, and try your best to pretend otherwise due to your own complexes and historical animosity towards anything Iranian.

 

That's beside the point though. Conspiracy or no conspiracy, the UAE referee screwed Iran, and most likely it was by design and premeditated, for one reason or another.[/quote]

Here's what the referee association thinks (I understand its just their view and nothing more)-
"In the 21st minute, Ashkan Dejagah from Iran fouled his opponent and when the Uzbek player was on the ground, the Iranian player kicked the ball at the injured player which deserved a straight red card. Al-Badwawi did not make the right decision and showed Dejagah a yellow card instead".

Iran too got many calls in its favor, and I'm sure Qatar would rather see the Uzbeks loose. They could not beat the Uzbeks at home but could draw with the Iranians so I'm they'd wanted the stringer link (Uzbeks) to loose instead of the Iranian whom I think Qatar may either easily draw or even win at Doha, but most likely loose away in Tashkent. That referee logic makes no sense; why would Qatar shoot itself in the foot?

 

Nobody here said that all Arab referees are biased against Iran. This particular one appeared to be, and Iran has been screwed by Arab referees on more than one occasion, with the beneficiary being either the Saudis in the old days, or Qatar more recently. So there is a pattern here that makes a series of bad calls against Iran in a crucial match, appear more sinister given the nationality of the referee.

A Japanese referee making bad calls against Uzbekistan cannot possibly have any ulterior motives for doing so, given the fact that Japan and Uzbekistan have no problems with each other. But a referee from UAE, making bad calls against Iran, COULD very well have ulterior motives given the problems between Iran and UAE, even excluding any possibility of Qatari involvement.

 

I wish Iran the best of luck in the coming rounds, and hope this referee is prosecuted and banned from all future games if proven guilty. Whole heartedly I believe if Iranians genuinely feel that Arab referees have been biased against them- I fully and 100% support Iranian demands should they request that going further no more Arabs should be involved in refereeing any games when Iran is involved. I would also find it very sick and twisted if Arab refs including Saudi ones have actually been mixing politics and sports- Shame on them!
For the record no need to remind us how much we currently suck that currently even if a ref gave us a two goal start against Iran we'd still loose.

 

Someone asked whether or not the Uzbek players contributed to time-wasting. Technically, they didn't and weren't even able to, since the referee refused to halt the progress of the game. Having said that, it must be pointed out that there were lots of simulated injuries in the last ten minutes of the second half. It was obvious, right from the moment Uzbekistan scored, that the visiting players were going to "grass-roll" as many times as they could, for obvious reasons. But, to the credit of the referee, the game-flow was rarely interrupted, thereby giving Iran a better chance to seek an equalizer.

So yes, the Uzbek players did attempt to waste time, but the referee did not allow them to successfully hinder the normal flow and progress of the game.

With regard to the Iranian goal that was disallowed, the linesman's decision was correct. An Iranian player was standing in an offside position and was also positioned in front of the Uzbek goal. Not only would this obstruct the goalkeeper's view, as many people offline/online have already stated, but the Iranian player's position was also going to create a lot of confusion for the Uzbek goalkeeper. In short, it was a correct decision.

By the way, why should it matter if the Uzbek players didn't object to anything? It's not the players' obligation to show the officials how to do their job. The fact that no Uzbek player raised his arm to contest the goal doesn't prove anything. It's completely irrelevant to what the rule states.

With regard to match fixing, I must admit that Bahrain's 10-0 win over Indonesia made me more suspicious of foul play than ever before. I was largely dismissive of these allegations in the past, and I still prefer to avoid basing my opinions on things that cannot be proven. Nevertheless, I do understand where some people are coming from, in that sometimes you just cant help but wonder if something fishy is going on. But with all due respect to the Iranian members here, I just cant see how an Uzbek victory is going to enhance Qatar's position in any way. I find myself agreeing with the Qatar-based members. If the Qataris really wanted to fix the game between Iran and Uzbekistan, they would've never allowed an Uzbek victory.

In my opinion, it's illogical to suggest that this result was inspired by Qatar. It makes the Iranians, who were proponents of this argument, guilty of the very thing that they're accusing the Arab members of doing. Ergo, just as there might be an Arab who's waiting for any Iranian slip-up, in order to rub salt into the Iranian wounds, there might also be an Iranian who's equally waiting for any given opportunity to blame the Arabs for something that went wrong.

The chauvinism needs to stop.

 

Listen, this thread is already a sh*t-storm as it is. I think there have been unnecessary things said on both sides, which always happens when you write with emotions. And I tried to urge fellow Iranian members to just halt it and stop the discussion, because it was leading nowhere.
Disappointly, it did not happen.

But there is no need for you, to come on here and add further fuel to a fire. Especially since the discussion does not even involve you or Iraq.
You say that you are happy you can avoid all this talk. Id take that seriously, except you yourself decided to "contribute" and participate on your own accord.
This is called opportunism. Sadly Ive seen you do it before in other thread.
Btw about the "Anti-Arab" comments, I think it is constricted to Qatar/UAE.

Anyway I just hope a mod comes and clean the mess up, so we can get the thread back on track.

 

I mentioned the population to say that It is a factor that Ireland can not be like Germany or Spain. Of course it is not the only factor and many team are not good with big population, but it is a factor in comparison of Ireland with Germany, Australia with Japan and others.
I did not say that Iran failure is because of only that game and poor referee who made many mistakes on the purpose. I never say that because I am realistic here. I am saying that Iran got hurt from Arab referees more than any other nations because of some problems they had with us (Not all of them) For our home game with Uzbekistan, his mistakes were on purpose. These were what I meant.

You are right. The squad is the most important thing but accept that It is not everything. I know the federation should be blamed first because of not having knowledge about football. Everyone blames him and we heard in news he may quit soon. He made many wrong decisions. That is a factor especially If they do not choose the right manager.

After Asian Cup 2007, we had not good squad. I agree with that but if you compare the performance of our team under all of the coaches we had after 2007, you clearly should understand that all of our managers had done better job than CQ. His team played weakest football compare to others like Daei and Ghotbi. He changed the main line up a lot. We do not see all four defenders in the line up that A. Ghotbi used them almost for all games after a few months passed from his job. So it shows that A. Ghotbi should have remained. He did enough well. We should careful before hiring a new coach. It was necessary to see what the coach had done as head coach in senior level before hiring him. So federation and manager are important factors too like strong squad which is the most important factor.

 

We do not Vs. the world. If you see my last comments, you will see that I said Qatar has nothing to do with the referee from Uae in our last match. The referee made mistakes on purpose because of other reasons that I mentioned like relationship between Iran and Uae because of Abu Mosa island, Iran and Arabs rivalry, and other reaons. (Of course this is not for all Arabs) So hope you do not hide the fact that the referee from Uae made many mistakes against Iran and we think they were on the purpose and that can be valid. (Note that Iran had problems with Arabs referee more than any other nations)

Everything show that we were not bad to have the idea of Sacking CQ after the second match. I agree Iran did not have good squad after Asian cup 2007 but If you compare the performance of all coaches we had after 2007, you understand that all of our managers (Ghotbi and Daei) had done better job than CQ. This is what Mayelikohan (Our coach from 1995-1997) said after Lebanon game. So our failure federation should have studied what CQ had done as number 1 in senior level. I heard in the news the president of our federation will quit and that will be good news for future.

 

So because I'm Iraqi & my team is not in this group, i don't have the right to give my opinion about what is obvious to the public and what is going on here? I'm not sure about this, its either Dictatorship or Racism.... maybe Both?

 

*Sigh
Not what I said at all. I guess some people hear what they want to hear...
I said you shouldnt be an opportunist and pour more fuel into a fire. That doesnt mean I want to take away your right to be just that and post whatever you want.
Try a bit of reading comprehension.

I still find it funny how you claim to be happy about avoiding these war of the words with Iranians, as they are not in your group, but then make a comment that is directly bating and bound to get responses. Bit of a contradiction woudlnt you say? And in the midst of Iranians having a flame war already with Qatari posters (on top of a debate with Uzbeks, which was civilized though)
As I said, opportunism at its best. Or worst..
But by all means, carry on, if you feel the need to. And I know you do.

Yeah... or OR...be ready for it: maybe you're just a tad confused.

 

Please bro, just give it a rest already.
At first I was sure it wasnt offside, but that is because I misinterpreted why he called the offside.
But if the obstruction thing is true, then maybe it was rightly called. I have not much clue about that, and frankly I dont much care. It is irrelevant now. We lost, and we should simply move on.

To all Iranian posters: Please just drop this. We will get nowhere with carrying this fruitless argument on. We are all passionate fans, which means that when we suffer defeat it hurts a lot. Ie many of our posts are emotionally induced and not entirely objective.

Im very glad that the Uzbek members have refrained from jumping in and pouring any more fuel to this, and instead have stayed cool. Generally I think their team and fans are really a class act (unlike the opportunists). Respect.

 

You are right bro.

Now I would like to tell u that it shows I was right about sacking CQ after Qatar game.
After Lebanon game, A. Daei said the best thing. he said why all of us blame the coach and then players? He said CQ did not become our coach by himself. So we must ask the person who appointed him. We must remove that person and try to fix everything from there. They asked him does not CQ have appropriate resume to be our coach? He said based on his knowledge, he was successful as head coach only in youth level. He was successful for discovering young players in youth level. But he was successful only as assistant in senior level not as number 1. The federation should have studied that first, not just he is a big name and he worked in big teams. At the end he said it does not change anything to talk about this more and we should think of best solutions. (He mentioned CQ results. Two home draw Vs Qatar, Lebanon defeat, Two draws Vs Jordan and other results)

So these were all he said and all of these were my ideas. So it shows I was right about him. (We should have hired someone who had good resume as number 1. Remember Blazevic achievement with Bosnia and Greece achievements with its German coach before) Any I believe he should be sack. I heard he want to send a young team to WAFF and his assistants coach it not him (In Goal.com) Our fans said CQ is very unsuccessful number 1 and great merchant. So To me, Kafashian is guilty for everything. These were all I could say about this.

 

Thanks. What are the chances that the result of the match gets overturned or replayed? Zero percent? That said, I think we can't blame our loss on the biased refs. I think the ultimate blame goes to CQ and the players. Perhaps we should have had an Iranian coach.

 

Very good post TM. I was in the exact same boat as you. I was sure it wasn't offside but then I reviewed it again (but I'm watching it on a computer screen 17"). It was a close call but neverthless I still think it's disputable. Caring too much about this or that call from a biased ref is not going to help TM advance. Personally, I think the most likely result is we finish 3rd place and end up having to face a South American team for Brazil. I am still hoping for a Uzbekistan collapse. Or we could end up playing better against the South American team and qualify that way but I wouldn't put too much hope on it. This is a team that loses to Lebanon and 4 weeks later beats South Korea with 10 men. If we don't qualify, it will not be because of this ref (who definitely made some questionable calls) but it will be because we couldn't get max points against Lebanon OR Qatar. We dropped 3 points against Lebanon and 2 against Qatar (should have beat them in Tehran). That's 5 points.

I think we are emotional people TM fan. I think that is ultimately what ends up hurting us. We look at things too emotionally rather than objectively. That said, I completely agree that our team and fans are really a class act (unlike the opportunists as you said who care more about Iran losing than their team winning).

 

<So we must ask the person who appointed him. We must remove that person and try to fix everything from there>

- IFF. So you are talking about removing the IRI?

 

The refs were the worst I've seen since Byron Moreno who helped South Korea in 2002. As we know, Arabs help each other and do everything to prevent Iran from qualifying. Remember 2002 WCQ. In the final matchday, Bahrain played against us like it was a WC final even though they were already eliminated at that time. They wanted to help their master 0-8ers and their fans were waving the Saudi flags.

We deserved to beat the Uzbeks and should have been the top with 10 points. But thanks to the Arabs, we are sitting on 3rd now. So annoying. I think it's a shame if one of the best teams in Asia fail to reach the finals again. The 0-8ers embarrassed Asia in 2002, eliminating us unfairly. The North Koreans also embarrassed Asia in 2010, eliminating us with their ultra defensive minded anti-football tactic. Iran would have been much better than both teams.

 

My brother, you don't deserve more than the 7 points you have because the Uzbek team was robbed in Tashkent.

Moreover, we fully deserve the 8 points we have now.

It is a GREAT PAY BACK TIME.

 

This is far from over, only 1 point separates Uzbekistan and Iran. Uzbekistan is also an inconsistent team, even worse than Iran in that department. I actually think Iran is still the favorite between the two teams, because Iran is more likely to get at least a draw in Korea based on history and while on paper, Iran has the more difficult road ahead, I'm not worried about the away game in Qatar, as it's a do-or-die game for Qatar, and they can't afford to sit back, waste time and rely on counters as they usually do against Iran in tight games. More importantly, Korea plays Iran on the last match day, and they would have probably secured qualification by then, and unlike 2010 WCQs, they won't have the incentive of helping the North Koreans, which means that Iran will face a less motivated Korean side that has never defeated Iran on their soil in a WCQ match. A draw should be enough for Iran.

 

I doubt that. It's probably going to be one of those draw-to-secure match with a small chance at qualifying after a loss. The best thing that can happen for Iran is that Korea beats Uzbekistan a week before their bout with Iran and they get complacent.

Also, I'm not sure if it was your attempt at humour, but Korean players will have a hard time gaining any kind motivation just from the will to help North Korea alone. Some people are happy when they do well, but that's just about where it ends. People don't get upset because North Korea didn't do well in a sporting event--in fact, most of their results (good or bad) pass by completely unheard--and none of our athletes will ever go out of their regular agenda or display extra determination just because North Korea needs their help.

I'm not sure what North Korea would be equivalent to in Iran, but Palestine might not be a terrible example; if a Palestinian athlete achieves something big at a sporting event (ie. winning a medal at the Olympics), many in the Islamic world would be happy for him, but that's where it ends. I guess some people in Iran would find joy from sporting achievements made by Azerbaijan as well.

At the end of the day, if Koreans three summers ago looked like they were giving any more effort than they normally would [none of us Koreans felt this, I will tell you that much], it was because they respected Iran to be a formidable opponent and wanted to defeat them.

 

I am not as hopeful with TM as you are. I just see too many flaws, particularly in the midfield. This is the way games are won nowadays. Just look at Spain. They have the best midfield in the world and have won 3 major international titles in a row. No more Bagheri, Azizi, Daie, Kia, Karimi, etc.

Lebanon has 4 points. Three of them were from us. If we don't qualify, it's because we couldn't beat Lebanon. Not because of a call by a biased ref.

I disagree with you that we should be blaming the biased refs. I don't know if he was biased. Football is not an American sport where you can look at a replay and determine whether the correct call was made and in the heat of the moment, it's hard to sometimes determine whether there was obstruction or not. In any event, it's irrelevant now.

But I completely agree with you that we shouldn't have Arabs as refs. Imagine if Qatar was playing in a WCQ match with a win essentially ensuring qualification for the national team and all the refs were Israelis. And then one of the ref makes a controversial call disqualifying a goal by Qatar. I wonder what our Qatari posters here would say. FIFA should be smart enough to know that having Arabs as refs for Iranians or Israelis is not the smartest thing to do. Or having Iranians or Israelis as refs for Arab teams. Or having an Indian as a ref for Pakistani teams and vice versa.

 

Mani jan, we haven't beaten Qatar in God knows how long! I don't know about Uzbekistan but if I had to bet, I would guess the last 2 wins have given them confidence. But it could also mean they could "choke" and buckle under the pressure. That's probably the best hope we have to qualify.

But I think that Uzbekistan beats Qatar and Lebanon for 6 more points and loses to Korea. That gives them 14 points with a more favorable goal differential. That means we need 7 points and score more goals (something TM is having a difficult time doing). So we have to beat Lebanon and Qatar. If we beat Qatar, I think we qualify though but regardless, we're no longer in control of our destiny. I would rather have secured qualification BEFORE we play Korea.

 

I'm surprised the Uzbek Federation has not filed a complaint too against the Ref in the first leg game that favored Iran. Also, if anyone could shed light here- had the Uzbeks filed a complaint against Bahrain in the last qualifying round when they were cheated out? and what eventually happened?

 

Lets not freely throw "ifs" and "had" around. Bahrain just wanted to prove a point, and still had pride to play for. Iran's destiny is in their own hand and should not believe that others owe them anything (no one owes you anything). Had Iran played better; they'd not have lost to Bahrain. Stop the frikken conspiracy theories, and I'm starting to see why Iran blames all their ills on others. Btw- there is no way you guys are currently one of the best teams in Asia. If you think Arabs hate you guys; God help you guys if you should qualify- the West hates you guys way more than we ever can.