2014 attendance discussion

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by Blaze20, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I'm not sure I understand the reason for factoring out Portland's attendance in a single entity scenario.
     
  2. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Uh, single entity has and had nothing to do with it. It's just that, last season, Portland's number were SO different from the rest of the league - which could be justified mathematically and backed up qualitatively by considering all the advantages Portland had - that it made sense to do both an "all league" analysis and a separate analysis looking at the other seven teams, i.e. discounting the Portland outlier. Looking at the median somewhat overlooks this outlier, but most analysts outside BigSoccer did a dual analysis anyway, calculating an all-league average attendance and a non-Portland average attendance.
     
  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (Emphasis added.)

    I believe this is exactly where the NWSL is, not where it's heading. The NWSL owns the teams and the team "owners" operate the teams under contracts with the NWSL. Among other things, this is why all NWSL player contracts are with the NWSL and not with the teams (I'm not including the allocated player contracts in this because I don't know whom they're with).
     
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding factoring Portland attendance in or out, it seems to me there are at least two ways to look at it:

    1. Portland is unique, from a completely different women's soccer universe than anywhere else, so that its attendance numbers are an anomaly that should be discarded.

    2. Portland is not unique, so that its numbers are not an anomaly and should be included.

    Way of looking at it 1 makes it easy for other teams to justify their much lower attendance and has essentially no implications for other teams. Way of looking at it 2 makes it very hard for other teams to justify their much lower attendance and has tremendous implications for other teams. If Houston stays in the 8,000 range, it will make it much harder to hold on to way of looking at it 1.
     
    SiberianThunderT repped this.
  5. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    That is not how MLS works. The players are under contract with the league but the Investor/Operators own the local teams, not the league. They get the right to operate in a market from the league by investing in the league but the local I/O is responsible for the local costs other than the player salaries. There is a certain level of revenue sharing in both directions between the league and the teams but it is not complete sharing. A good example inMLS is the shirt sponsor. The teams make the deals (with approval from the league) and then give the league the first $200,000 per year. The team keeps the rest.

    You will hear people say that "MLS owns 51% of each team" or other statements like that but it is not true. The local I/Os own the their local teams.

    From talking to the FO here in Houston, I'm pretty sure that the NWSL is following the same model. The Houston Dynamo own the Dash, not the NWSL.
     
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    There is more to to the single entity model than the FA's and league just controlling and owning the players. Teams are not " owned" in the sense that European teams own players, stadiums, and rights unless they enter into revenues sharing for tv contracts. In Spain, for instance, each team owns World media rights.

    The league controls the National media rights, and most importantly if they follow the MLS template, have the right to replace owners who are not conforming to league standards. The technical and competition committees have final say. They are composed of league officials, the FA's, and team owners.


    We saw this with several previous MLS franchises, including most recently Chivas.

    This was I am sure a consideration w hen forming the league. Steps are in place to make sure there is no reoccurrence of magicjack.
     
  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They own everything but the teams, depending on what a team is.

    I was not sure about say who owns the brands, but going by the ChivasUSA sell, it looks like the I/O own the brand.

    But legally speaking the league owns the teams, but as you say in reality that only means the players, everything else outside the players are owned by the holding companies of each I/O (many cases multiple holding companies per entity).
     
  8. slc1997

    slc1997 Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I hope there is some kind of future merger between the reign and the sounders. Attendance would be much better and the reign could have a w-league reserve team like the freedom do.
     
  9. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    The Reign and most NWSL teams have a reserve squad
     
  10. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    If player contracts are controlled by the league, this would stop Sahlen from signing a player outside the cap via a company sponsorship deal. I was wondering how the league could control that from happening. That would be the only way Sahlen could bring Marta back to WNY if he wanted. Now, it would have to be with league approval vs maximum international salary + a sponsorship deal. That's definitely a checks and balance which could also control a company like Red Bull if they can ever come to terms with SkyBull. That deal needs to happen. The leaguew could use access to Red Bull Media House. Those guys work with an $1B+ budget.
     
  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #61 Cliveworshipper, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014

    Following the MLS model, if Marta came back she would be an exception to the cap rule, just as the WPS assumed her salary last time around.


    The nwsl does not yet sign players outside the cap limit like the MLS does. Players like Terray and Beckham were signed by the league outside the limits as being " good for the league" most of their salaries were also paid as sponsorship deals, ( and In Beckhams case with credit towards his own franchise) which the NWSL does not show signs of doing. Right now, the league prohibits other payment methods.
     
  12. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
    Marta will be in NWSL one day.
     
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Maybe, but it will be late in her career and she won't be commanding salaries high enough to bankrupt teams any more. Her record is pretty astounding to date.

    The MLS couldn't afford Beckham and Terray until they were on the down sides of their careers.
     
  14. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    Forgive my ignorance. Who is terray?
     
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  15. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    X-D
    I think Clive meant Thierry, as in Thierry Henry the Frenchman.
     
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    My word replace gets him confused with another Frenchman Lionel Terray.
     
  17. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    Beckham was a draw. Marta is not an attraction in the same way. There is no woso player outside of the u.s. to whom the nwsl should pay outside the cap $$.

    Or is there? I don't know of one.

    The players who put butts in the seats are wnt players like morgan, solo etc. And ussoccer clearly knows that.
     
  18. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Marta falls under the "quality striker rule", which the NWSL needs more of. In her case she's the ultimate. I'm assuming championships mean business for Sahlen's sport park, racing, etc, and Marta is a bargain now vs the clown deal AEG setup. Obviously, Lines isn't winning it with his current forward situation. Joe likes her, so I'd like to see him make a pitch for her. One thing, you will find out what Wambach has left. Marta will put her in scoring positions better than the NT.
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    If Marta goes anywhere it is the Death Star. It's the only franchise in the World that can afford her, and then only if they get to control their tv rights.
     
  20. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Death Star?
     
  21. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Marta is not coming to the U.S and if I were her I won't. She is still in her prime and no US team can afford her and no matter how quality she is, it is not a smart business move.
    As someone said above, the only time teams in the US will afford her is when she's at the tail end of her career. At point, it make no sense for her to come to the US if she have already purchase a house in Sweden.
    Even if Lines can't win with his current forwards, there are loads of up coming talent that you can get on the cheap.
     
  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No way the NWSL should have any salary cap exceptions. MLS might do it, but that's because nearly all the best men's players in the world come from outside the US. That's not the case for women.

    There's a reason why Angerer, Boquette, and others are coming to play in the NWSL. It's a draw for top soccer players. If Marta wants to come to the NWSL under the same circumstances, fine, but she won't make a major difference to the league from an economic perspective. And if she doesn't, fine, although she may be giving up the opportunity to play with the best.
     
  23. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    That's what the La team, the Pride, and Tyresö thought, too. I'd include the Flash, but the league folded trying to pay Marta's salary first.
     
  24. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    :rolleyes:

    Sol folded because of AEG
    FCGB folded because the owner loaded the roster for an one shot deal and found out that people in the Bay Area didn't care about soccer. BTW, Neymar folded the Mermaids, not Marta.
    Flash were going to resign Marta at her true market value which is somewhere between Santos and Tyreso.

    MagicDan folded the league.

    I guess Marta jacked the WUSA too. :rolleyes:
     
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  25. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
     

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